With that word salad, I'm done with this thread. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:52 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like you have already thoroughly made your mind up and any evidence > that anyone tried to bring to you to show you why you may be mistaken will > be immediately dismissed as coming from some illegitimate demonic "mind > virus" that only you can perceive yet can't extrapolate to anybody else > what would constitute a legitimate or illegitimate source. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:42 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: > >> You can cite anything you want, you're just not entitled to the time it >> would take me to debunk a bunch of pseudoscientific nonsense. I'm not your >> butler. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:35 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed >>> to cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I >>> allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change >>> your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to >>> bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of >>> closed minded. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not >>>> been paying attention? >>>> >>>> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart >>>> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. >>>> >>>> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but >>>> you'll need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be >>>>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism >>>>> and >>>>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American >>>>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay >>>>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which >>>>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses >>>>> this >>>>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake >>>>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual >>>>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as >>>>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a >>>>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin >>>>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to >>>>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the >>>>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to >>>>> use it to mobilize a range of passions." >>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >>>>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >>>>>> >>>>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when >>>>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're >>>>>> talking about a far-left ideology. >>>>>> >>>>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >>>>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >>>>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in >>>>>> a bubble. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion >>>>>>> using the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> may enlighten you: >>>>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory >>>>>>> I believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of >>>>>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims >>>>>>> that Western Marxism >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the basis of >>>>>>> continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western >>>>>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The >>>>>>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being >>>>>>> responsible for modern progressive >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, >>>>>>> identity >>>>>>> politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and >>>>>>> political >>>>>>> correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>, >>>>>>> claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via >>>>>>> a planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that >>>>>>> undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism >>>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and >>>>>>> seeks to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if >>>>>>>> you don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government >>>>>>>> or private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do >>>>>>>> with fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of >>>>>>>> corruption, far more dangerous. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if >>>>>>>> it would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of >>>>>>>>> corporations and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not >>>>>>>>> allowed >>>>>>>>> to be spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and >>>>>>>>> shareholders >>>>>>>>> "know what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a >>>>>>>>> "postmodern neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political >>>>>>>>> buzzwords being thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any >>>>>>>>> opposition >>>>>>>>> to the corporate takeover of speech and thought. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - >>>>>>>>>> in the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Here is an excellent book >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B> >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> think! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I take woke to mean definition 1. >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke >>>>>>>>>>> what is so wrong with that? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as >>>>>>>>>>> part of a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a >>>>>>>>>>> young age. >>>>>>>>>>> Even as a child I instantly recognized it as evil. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or >>>>>>>>>>> conservatives. I think they each bring a critical perspective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the >>>>>>>>>>> left. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is >>>>>>>>>>> the greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has >>>>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>>> done incredible damage. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can >>>>>>>>>>> quote me on that. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your support on the name change :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet >>>>>>>>>>>> classic" is perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is >>>>>>>>>>>> -- the >>>>>>>>>>>> classic version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or >>>>>>>>>>>> anything like >>>>>>>>>>>> that. And I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but >>>>>>>>>>>> personally as a member of "the next generation" that Ian is >>>>>>>>>>>> concerned about >>>>>>>>>>>> I was disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown >>>>>>>>>>>> around. >>>>>>>>>>>> The next generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around >>>>>>>>>>>> accusations >>>>>>>>>>>> of "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something >>>>>>>>>>>> I was >>>>>>>>>>>> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I >>>>>>>>>>>> hold in high >>>>>>>>>>>> regards. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it >>>>>>>>>>>>> funny. I'm not seeking your approval. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ian, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find it funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and leave it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> particularly one who brought racism into the conversation in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't like it, I suggest you touch grass. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joke or not, it wasn't funny. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish to get involved in the freenet dispute. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Russell Glenn <rusgl...@swismail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Ian Clarke, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taken anyway. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Proof: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> racism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NEVER be. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Millions of people died due to racism. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> insults you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produced on this list in the previous days. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * leave its board and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where power is wielded. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constructed of active members of the community, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daigniere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stated, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I join those who request leadership is transferred to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leading developer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous lead >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their support. We must stand united against racism. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Russell Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ian Clarke >>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Ian Clarke >> Founder, The Freenet Project >> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >> > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org>
