i'm sure "truth social" would be acceptable. maybe "oan" too...
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Amireh
To: devl@freenetproject.org
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to
cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I allowed to
cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change your mind? If
there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to bear to challenge
your belief I would have to say that is the definition of closed minded.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote:
Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia, have you
not been paying attention?
Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart
your gish gallop of stuff you just googled.
If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll
need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote:
I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be
relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and the
Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American Far
Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay examines the
conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which has been deployed
by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this discourse from its
origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake by the high-profile
American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual employment by Anders Breivik.
As well as in Anglophone settings such as Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also
highlights that the concept has found a relevance within the British extreme
right. Figures including Nick Griffin have drawn on this terminology, a
discourse offering a useful crutch to support various political arguments.
Jamin’s conclusions highlight the nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a
variety of protagonists to use it to mobilize a range of passions."
https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote:
Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything
remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious.
The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when
they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're talking
about a far-left ideology.
What you're talking about is a form of terminological
guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone simply
by them mentioning the name of an ideology.
It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a
bubble.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using
the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may
enlighten you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I believe
the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the downfall of
western civilization and accusing your opponents of "neomarxism" : "The term
"Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory which
claims that Western Marxism is the basis of continuing academic and
intellectual efforts to subvert Western culture. The conspiracy theory
misrepresents the Frankfurt School as being responsible for modern progressive
movements, identity politics, and political correctness, claiming there is an
ongoing and intentional subversion of Western society via a planned culture war
that undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism and seeks
to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s."
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote:
I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if
you don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain.
I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government
or private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals.
Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do
with fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of
corruption, far more dangerous.
Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if
it would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country?
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of
corporations and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not allowed to
be spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and shareholders "know
what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a "postmodern
neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political buzzwords being thrown
around to label, demean and dismiss any opposition to the corporate takeover of
speech and thought.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote:
That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI
- in the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative.
Here is an excellent book about it by a Columbia University
linguistics professor. Let me know what you think!
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee
<craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
I take woke to mean definition 1.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
what is so wrong with that?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Clarke
To: devl@freenetproject.org
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew
up as part of a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age.
Even as a child I instantly recognized it as evil.
I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or
conservatives. I think they each bring a critical perspective.
I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and
the left.
The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism,
is the greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already
done incredible damage.
Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can
quote me on that.
Thanks for your support on the name change :)
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh
<cactus...@gmail.com> wrote:
I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet
classic" is perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the
classic version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that.
And I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a
member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was disappointed
to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next generation is
not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of "virtue signalling" is
typical alt right rhetoric and something I was disappointed to see from someone
representing a project that I hold in high regards.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke
<i...@freenet.org> wrote:
Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you
find it funny. I'm not seeking your approval.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee
<craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
Ian,
I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I
didnt find it funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just
wanted to state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at
that.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Clarke
To: devl@freenetproject.org
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this
list
Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was
racist, particularly one who brought racism into the conversation in the first
place.
I thought it was funny, and that's all that
matters. If you don't like it, I suggest you touch grass.
I'm going to start blocking you idiots.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee
<craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
I have to admit I was confused by the statement
Ian made. Joke or not, it wasn't funny.
but this is as far as I will go on the matter as
I don't wish to get involved in the freenet dispute.
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Glenn
To: devl@freenetproject.org
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM
Subject: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this
list
Mr. Ian Clarke,
when discussing your acquisition of a secondary
domain,
"freenet.org", for your highly controversial
unilateral decision
to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always
been hosted
on "freenetproject.org", you said the following:
> Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain
names were taken anyway.
Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the
email of yours did
not contain ANY other content, nothing to
reduce the gravity of
this statement; the gravity of which cannot be
reduced anyway.
Proof:
https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html
As a black person, but not only as such, I
inform you that racism
is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on
this planet and will
NEVER be.
And before you attempt to dismiss this as a
joke:
Millions of people died due to racism.
You, especially as a white person, are not
entitled to joke about that.
Nobody is.
And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and
other insults you have
produced on this list in the previous days.
Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of
people who request
you to:
* immediately step down as leader of the
Freenet Project and
* leave its board and
* transfer ownership of the domains to the
Freenet developer team and
* transfer ownership of all other related
accounts and
* cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of
your new projects.
Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not
belong into positions
where power is wielded.
As you have failed to prove that the board of
the project is still
constructed of active members of the community,
and not of those who have been inactive for
decades as Mr. Daigniere
stated,
I join those who request leadership is
transferred to the
leading developer.
To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide.
Should he not accept the position, I would
vouch for the previous lead
developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the
choice of the two.
Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads
this email to state
their support. We must stand united against
racism.
- Russell Glenn
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
--
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org
