So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of closed minded.
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: > Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not > been paying attention? > > Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart > your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. > > If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll > need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be >> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and >> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American >> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay >> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which >> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this >> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake >> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual >> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as >> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a >> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin >> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to >> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the >> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to >> use it to mobilize a range of passions." >> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >> >>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >>> >>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when they >>> use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're talking >>> about a far-left ideology. >>> >>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >>> >>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a >>> bubble. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using >>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may >>>> enlighten you: >>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I >>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the >>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of >>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that >>>> Western >>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the basis >>>> of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western >>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The >>>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being >>>> responsible for modern progressive >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, identity >>>> politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and political >>>> correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>, >>>> claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via a >>>> planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that >>>> undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism >>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and >>>> seeks to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s." >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if >>>>> you don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain. >>>>> >>>>> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or >>>>> private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals. >>>>> >>>>> Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do with >>>>> fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of >>>>> corruption, far more dangerous. >>>>> >>>>> Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if it >>>>> would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country? >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of >>>>>> corporations and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not >>>>>> allowed >>>>>> to be spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and >>>>>> shareholders >>>>>> "know what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a >>>>>> "postmodern neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political >>>>>> buzzwords being thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any opposition >>>>>> to the corporate takeover of speech and thought. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in >>>>>>> the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is an excellent book >>>>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B> >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you >>>>>>> think! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee < >>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I take woke to mean definition 1. >>>>>>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke >>>>>>>> what is so wrong with that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as >>>>>>>> part of a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young >>>>>>>> age. >>>>>>>> Even as a child I instantly recognized it as evil. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or >>>>>>>> conservatives. I think they each bring a critical perspective. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the >>>>>>>> greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already >>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>> incredible damage. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote >>>>>>>> me on that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for your support on the name change :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" >>>>>>>>> is perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the >>>>>>>>> classic >>>>>>>>> version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like >>>>>>>>> that. And >>>>>>>>> I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally >>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>> member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was >>>>>>>>> disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. >>>>>>>>> The next >>>>>>>>> generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of >>>>>>>>> "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was >>>>>>>>> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold >>>>>>>>> in high >>>>>>>>> regards. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it >>>>>>>>>> funny. I'm not seeking your approval. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ian, >>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find >>>>>>>>>>> it funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just >>>>>>>>>>> wanted to >>>>>>>>>>> state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at >>>>>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, >>>>>>>>>>> particularly one who brought racism into the conversation in the >>>>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>> place. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you >>>>>>>>>>> don't like it, I suggest you touch grass. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke >>>>>>>>>>>> or not, it wasn't funny. >>>>>>>>>>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish >>>>>>>>>>>> to get involved in the freenet dispute. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Russell Glenn <rusgl...@swismail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Ian Clarke, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >>>>>>>>>>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral >>>>>>>>>>>> decision >>>>>>>>>>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >>>>>>>>>>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken >>>>>>>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did >>>>>>>>>>>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of >>>>>>>>>>>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway. >>>>>>>>>>>> Proof: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that >>>>>>>>>>>> racism >>>>>>>>>>>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will >>>>>>>>>>>> NEVER be. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: >>>>>>>>>>>> Millions of people died due to racism. >>>>>>>>>>>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke >>>>>>>>>>>> about that. >>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody is. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults >>>>>>>>>>>> you have >>>>>>>>>>>> produced on this list in the previous days. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request >>>>>>>>>>>> you to: >>>>>>>>>>>> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and >>>>>>>>>>>> * leave its board and >>>>>>>>>>>> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer >>>>>>>>>>>> team and >>>>>>>>>>>> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and >>>>>>>>>>>> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into >>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>>>>>>> where power is wielded. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is >>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>> constructed of active members of the community, >>>>>>>>>>>> and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. >>>>>>>>>>>> Daigniere >>>>>>>>>>>> stated, >>>>>>>>>>>> I join those who request leadership is transferred to the >>>>>>>>>>>> leading developer. >>>>>>>>>>>> To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the >>>>>>>>>>>> previous lead >>>>>>>>>>>> developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to state >>>>>>>>>>>> their support. We must stand united against racism. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Russell Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ian Clarke >>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>> >> > > -- > Ian Clarke > Founder, The Freenet Project > Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >
