ok let me throw my opinion :) On Sep 19, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Caleb James DeLisle <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi guys, > > "Users Directory" or "Users Index" sounds awkward to me. If it was a List > it would be "User List" not "Users List" unless the List happened to belong > to a person called "User". > > Then I feel like these names are kind of a lingual tarpit because trying > to be descriptive runs you up against the limitations of the language. > > Directory is a much used term because of Unix and a "User Directory" sounds > a whole lot like the user's home directory. > > If the User listing is there for *management* of users then I would recommend > "User Management" which is well understood to be about management of all > users, > not a thing belonging to a specific one. It's not a management feature. It's just to have the list of users. I think User Directory is a pretty used term for this. For example: https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Configuring+User+Directories However it's pretty much a tie on http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22user+directory%22&word2=%22user+index%22 So for the sake of consistency (see below) I think "User Index" would be a good pick. > "Document Index" is well descriptive in my opinion. Agreed > For wikis I'm a bit torn, like users they have attributes and possessions. > "Wiki Index" might be the index (of documents) for *this* wiki. When accessing > the wiki list the admin probably has management intentions so "Wiki > Management" > sounds plausible but in this case, he could be talking about management of the > current wiki. I think the best fit here is "SubWiki Administration" because it > clearly states that it's about (one or more) SubWikis and I just happen to > think > Administration is a nice word in this case because it makes one think of > operations which are more technical/powerful than those comprising management. We decided not to use subwikis already and this is not about management either. It's just the list of all wikis. 2 examples: - http://wikiindex.org/Welcome - http://wikispot.org/Wiki_directory I'd say "Wiki Index" based on http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Wiki+Index%22&word2=%22Wiki+Directory%22 Thanks -Vincent > So sorry to throw in yet another proposal but I think the best is: > > ["Document Index", "User Management", "SubWiki Administration"] > > Thanks, > Caleb > > > > > On 09/19/2013 01:08 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau wrote: >> I let you decide for next Monday. We should release the RC 1. I won't be >> there tomorow. >> >> Thanks, >> Louis-Marie >> >> >> 2013/9/19 Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >> >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> yes, the 'Index' was proposed in order to have consistency between the >>>> entries: 'Documents Index', 'Users Index', 'Applications Index', 'Wikis >>>> Index', etc. (Obs. the Applications Index is not yet implemented, but the >>>> entry should provide a livetable that allows filtering for entries of a >>>> certain type: documents, users, wikis, etc.) >>>> >>>> the alternative was to have 'Documents Directory', 'Users Directory', >>>> 'Applications Directory', 'Wikis Directory'. >>>> >>>> I think that the 'Index' version is much shorter than the 'Directory', >>>> while having a more generic meaning. Alternatives: 'List', etc. >>>> >>>> Just for the record, the proposal uses the "plural" form of the entities. >>>> It would be great if an english speaker could give its opinion on the >>>> correct form. >>> >>> I'd say singular form is better than plural but then I'm not a native >>> English speaker ;) >>> >>> Regarding Index vs Directory, I don't know. >>> >>> Thanks >>> -Vincent >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Caty >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> 2013/9/19 Ludovic Dubost <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> This looks good. I have a comment though on the "User index". I'm sorry >>>>> if >>>>>> this was already discussed. >>>>>> >>>>>> My first reaction was that it's not really telling me what it is. I >>>>> suppose >>>>>> it's the "User Directory". Maybe my english is wrong, but why not just >>>>>> calling it "User Directory" like it is right now. >>>>>> >>>>>> I suppose the reason is to have "Document Index" followed by "User >>>>> Index", >>>>>> but I don't think it's the same thing. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, the idea was to have a consistency between names in the menu. Is >>> that >>>>> true Caty? >>>>> >>>>> But my english is not good enough to say if it is correct or not... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ludovic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2013/9/18 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You can see some screenshots in the JIRA: >>>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9475 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> LM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2013/9/18 Fabio Mancinelli <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Indeed, the proposal A was based on >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/PortalMenuinstead >>>>>>>>> of >>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then I suggest to call your proposal: E. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let me recap: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Proposal B : XWiki right side menu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by Caty. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I like both B and E. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I liked E because it keeps the left area the same. Since all the >>>>> wikis >>>>>>>> are equal, so it should be the area for manipulating it. But since >>>>> the >>>>>>>> main wiki is "more equal" than the others, it's good to show it. I >>>>>>>> understand the problem of E but I cannot think of another place where >>>>>>>> to put this menu. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I don't like of E is just the "home" label. >>>>>>>> Home will become too overloaded. Every wiki has a home, now with that >>>>>>>> menu there will be a home which is the home of the main wiki. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cannot think of a better alternative besides "Main" that suffers of >>>>>>>> the same problem (since every wiki has a Main space). >>>>>>>> Maybe calling it "XWiki" can really be a possible solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Fabio >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> About E: >>>>>>>>> Some issues IMHO: >>>>>>>>> - The amount of menus is not the same when you are in the home wiki >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> when you are in the subwiki. >>>>>>>>> - Do we really need to have a direct access to the documents, the >>>>>> users >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the applications of the home wiki when you are in the subwiki? >>>>> Can't >>>>>> it >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> confusing? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2013/9/12 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Vincent Massol < >>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You forgot one proposal which I like: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal D == >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * Generalize the XWiki home (the logo at the top left) >>>>>>>>>>> * When you click on the logo you get to the home of the current >>>>>> wiki >>>>>>>>>>> * The proposal is about generalizing that feature to allow >>>>>>> navigating >>>>>>>>>>> either to the wiki home, to the main wiki or to the list of >>>>> other >>>>>>>> wikis >>>>>>>>>>> * It could be done by showing a menu arrow when the mouse hover >>>>>> over >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> logo and when the mouse moves over the arrow, show a menu with >>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>> entry >>>>>>>>>>> = "Main Wiki" (or "Home Wiki" if you prefer) and a second entry >>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> "Wiki >>>>>>>>>>> Index" for example. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What I like with this is that the user is already used to use >>>>> the >>>>>>>> logo as >>>>>>>>>>> a way to navigate to the home of wiki. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi developers. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tuesday evening, after trying to fix all issues that integrate >>>>>>>>>> Workspace >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> XE made, I had a bit of time to work on this JIRA: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9341 "Menu improvements >>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>> Workspaces >>>>>>>>>>>> activated". >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The idea was to quickly implement the Caty's proposal for M2 >>>>>>> (which >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> scheduled for the day after). I made it and I sent a pull >>>>>>> request. I >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> also sent a mail to Vincent to show him my work. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal A == >>>>>>>>>>>> There is some screenshots (Proposal A): >>>>>>>>>>>> Logged as admin: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>>> Not logged as admin: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu-non-admin.png >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You can get it from this commit: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/8c1c1bac2cde30f9024525e50249382e3d2c4138 >>>>>>>>>>>> (except that I have changed the wiki icon for this screenshot) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So I just want to link again the 'Home Menu' full proposal >>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In your screenshot is: >>>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>>> ** Administer Main Wiki >>>>>>>>>> ** Wiki Directory >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What it was proposed: >>>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>>> ** Administration >>>>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index >>>>>>>>>> ** .... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuSubWiki.png >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuMain.png >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Administer Main Wiki" was proposed as: >>>>>>>>>> - "Administration" >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> - "Administer Home" / "Administrate Home" >>>>>>>>>> depending if you were located in Home or in the (sub)wiki. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We though this menu was confusing and not consistent with the >>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>> menus: >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why do we have a link to the *main wiki* administration when >>>>>> we >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> (sub)wiki? Does it make sense? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As an administrator I think it has sense to be able to >>>>> administrate >>>>>>> both >>>>>>>>>> the current (sub)wiki you are visiting and also the home >>>>> (mainwiki). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Why do we have the main wiki (called Home) in the left of >>>>> the >>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>>> wiki, space and page? The fact that there is actually a "main" >>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>> "sub" wikis is only due to the implementation. We could >>>>> imagine, >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> future, a new implementation where there is no distinction >>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>> "main" >>>>>>>>>>>> and "sub", but where we have an independent "system" that >>>>> allows >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> users >>>>>>>>>>>> to create and manage their wikis. Then, it seems better to >>>>> call >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> menu >>>>>>>>>>>> "System" or "XWiki". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The "main" and "sub" is transformed in "home" and "wiki". The menu >>>>>>>> displays >>>>>>>>>> the hierarchy: Home > Wiki > Space > Page and is also consistent >>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> way our cascading works for our preferences (rights, etc.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - When we don't have the admin right on the main wiki, we only >>>>>> have >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> single item in this menu, meanwhile wiki, space and page has >>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>>>>> It does not look good. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the proposal there is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuSubWiki.png >>>>>>>>>> Although this is not currently implemented, the idea is that we >>>>>> could >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> list for example the "Users Index" a.k.a the "User Directory" >>>>>>>> (especially >>>>>>>>>> since workspaces have only global users and the directory is >>>>> located >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> main wiki). In the proposal I've used " *** Index" in order to >>>>> have >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> consistency between the index/directory applications naming. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So the idea is that even if now there is only one entry in the >>>>>>> submenu, >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> could have more entries (if they are related to the Home >>>>>> (mainwiki)). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - If you are in the main wiki, you have "Administer main wiki" >>>>>>>> twice: >>>>>>>>>>> once >>>>>>>>>>>> in the Home menu, once in the Wiki menu. >>>>>>>>>>>> - The left menu has too many items. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on the main wiki, the menu changes from >>>>>>>>>> * Menu in the (sub)wiki >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuSubWiki.png >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> * Menu in the Home (mainwiki) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuMain.png >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The left menu contains items related to 'spatial organization of >>>>>>>> content' >>>>>>>>>> inside XWiki (wikis, spaces, pages) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal B == >>>>>>>>>>>> Vincent thought it was not good enough to be integrated in >>>>>> 5.2M2, >>>>>>>> so we >>>>>>>>>>>> started to iterate until having this proposal: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png(proposal >>>>>>>>>>>> B). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why putting this menu to the right side? It's because, on the >>>>>> left >>>>>>>>>> side, >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>> have Wiki/Space/Page, where you have actions that you can >>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>> achieve >>>>>>>>>>>> on these Wiki, Space and Page. Actions like "Administer", >>>>>> "Delete" >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> "Rename". The XWiki menu does not provide actions like that, >>>>> it >>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>> provides some shortcuts to navigate thought the wikis. It's >>>>>> more a >>>>>>>>>>> "System" >>>>>>>>>>>> menu, like the Profile menu, or the Register action. That's >>>>> why >>>>>> we >>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> there. Moreover, it make the left menu smaller, which is less >>>>>>>>>> confusing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't like this proposal because is breaking the content >>>>>>> organization >>>>>>>>>> hierarchy: home > wiki > space > page. >>>>>>>>>> You can consider our current menu to be composed of "Content || >>>>>> User". >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> "Content" part allows you to create new content and to see your >>>>>>>> location in >>>>>>>>>> the content hierarchy. The right menu is dedicated to User related >>>>>>>> actions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also I don't like that it uses the name XWiki. Users want to >>>>>> customize >>>>>>>>>> their instance and not even show it's running on XWiki, making it >>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> own. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> == Proposal C == >>>>>>>>>>>> We had also this idea: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png(proposalC) >>>>>>>>>>>> But we didn't like it, because the "Wiki Directory" and the >>>>>> "Main >>>>>>>> Wiki" >>>>>>>>>>>> link are not related to the current wiki, meanwhile actions >>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> "Administer", "Index" or "Delete" are. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Crowded and serves as a double function. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> After having created the proposal B, I asked Vincent: "What >>>>>>> should I >>>>>>>>>> do? >>>>>>>>>>> Do >>>>>>>>>>>> I commit it, without asking to the community?". He said yes, >>>>>>>> because he >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to have something to show to the community that can >>>>> still >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> changed >>>>>>>>>>>> for the RC1, and he applied the pull request. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, let me list again the 3 proposals we have: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A - "Home" menu (Caty's proposal): >>>>>>>>>>>> Current implementation: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>>> Mockup with the new skin: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/PortalMenu/MenuPortal.png >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> B - "XWiki" right menu: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> C - Add actions to the "Wiki" menu: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I propose to start a thread where you can all give your >>>>> opinion, >>>>>>>>>>> regarding >>>>>>>>>>>> one of these proposals, and you can also bring new ideas. We >>>>>> must >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> consensus for the RC1! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 0 for proposal A (the left menu is too heavy). >>>>>>>>>>>> +0 for proposal B (not perfect IMHO). >>>>>>>>>>>> -1 for proposal C. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, my vote goes to Ver. A, but the way it was proposed: >>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (Wiki / (sub)wiki) >>>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>>> ** Administration >>>>>>>>>> ** --- >>>>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index/Directory >>>>>>>>>> ** Documents Index >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (Home/mainwiki) >>>>>>>>>> * Home >>>>>>>>>> ** Watch Home >>>>>>>>>> ** Administer Home >>>>>>>>>> ** --- >>>>>>>>>> ** Wikis Index >>>>>>>>>> ** Documents Index >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Caty _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
