> On 13 Oct 2016, at 11:17, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> wrote:
>> On 13 Oct 2016, at 11:07, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> Some notes about the comments:
>> - @GD: In CkEditor when drag&dropping it doesn't open a file explorer
>> (that's for the simple upload), instead you just drag the image from
>> Desktop and it inserts it.
>> - @Vincent: the inline editing approach (with keeping the attachments tab
>> in the same location) doesn't work for cases when we hide the docextra: we
>> will have the same problem, and we might plan to remove that area for other
>> skins.
>> - @Thomas: yes this approach to have attachments tab in edit is problematic
>> because of the save and other js events, plus to me is still oldish.
>> So I don't want us to include the attachment tab in edit mode (although it
>> sounded as a nice option). Instead I would like at least to have an
>> improved drag&drop for CkEditor (improvement) and in the 'future' to
>> support drag&drop in wiki mode (new feature).
> I think we all agree about this.

Don’t want to speak for others ;) So let me rephrase: I completely agree with 
both Thomas and Caty’s points.


> What I understood from GD’s remark, was to find an easy way to have this now 
> and not in one year. So the real question is: is it better to wait or do 
> something that is marginally better than what we have now but without being 
> how we want to do it in the end (it’s an open question)?
> FYI I’ll send a proposal for the roadmap for 8.4.x before the end of the week 
> but ATM I don’t have this item in it.
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.morta...@xwiki.com
>>> wrote:
>>> Something is not clear to me. What is exactly going to happen in edit
>>> mode when you select an attachment ?
>>> If the plan is to let the attachment tab behave exactly as it does in
>>> view mode (which is to actually upload the attachment and save the
>>> document) I'm really not a big fan of this. If we support attachments
>>> in edit view it should not send anything until we click save.
>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 12 Oct 2016, at 18:47, Guillaume Delhumeau <
>>> guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>>> Just some remarks before I go:
>>>>> * As a developer, I always use the Wiki editor, and even for me it's a
>>> pain
>>>>> to go to view mode to upload a file (for example, an image in the
>>> release
>>>>> notes).
>>>>> * I never use drag&drop in whatever application I have. I have never
>>> liked
>>>>> it because it requires to open a file explorer specially for that and
>>> it's
>>>>> always a pain because I use applications in full size mode. I'm sure I'm
>>>>> not the only one so I'm not fond of having it as the only way to upload
>>>>> attachments.
>>>> For the sake of the discussion, also note that there’s another option.
>>> Don’t leave the view page when editing (ie. inline editing) and just
>>> replace the view area by an edit area. And find how to display the page
>>> syntax and include/display references in the UI.
>>>> The nice part is that it 1) it saves a reload of the UI (good for perf)
>>> and 2) it feels more snappy and no context switching for the user (better
>>> usability).
>>>> If you remember this was a proposal done a very long time ago by
>>> Jean-Vincent Drean (tried to find the thread again but didn’t succeed).
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 2016-10-12 18:00 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com
>>>> :
>>>>>> There are some problems with docextra, because it contains comments,
>>> which
>>>>>> are mostly needed in view mode, not in edit. So in edit mode, we would
>>> need
>>>>>> just some tabs from docextra. But I'm not sure that adding docextra now
>>>>>> will fix the underlying problem of the issue.
>>>>>> The issue was trying to fix the attachments uploading limitation of the
>>>>>> editor. The problem is that the editors (including CKEditor) are
>>>>>> advertising that they add images and not other file types. If users
>>> want to
>>>>>> add a PDF they might be confused.
>>>>>> Ideally the users would just need to drag&drop a file and we would
>>> insert a
>>>>>> displayer depending on the dragged type (viewer for PDFs, gallery for
>>>>>> multiple images, image macro for single image, etc.)
>>>>>> Also even if in CKEditor the drag&drop option for images is permitted,
>>>>>> nobody knows about it. And currently CKEditor has the limitation to
>>> allow
>>>>>> dragging just images and not other types (dragging an image inserts it,
>>>>>> dragging a text file does nothing).
>>>>>> Other thing to consider is that for Groupware flavor, where we promote
>>>>>> applications, we hide the docextra, since this is not so relevant for
>>>>>> application entries. Hidding docextra creates
>>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13799 and
>>>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12993 .
>>>>>> So, a conclusion: I'm not sure adding #docextra in the edit mode is the
>>>>>> best solution, especially since we try to make the interface more
>>> simple
>>>>>> and we usually hide docextra also from view.
>>>>>> An idea would be to better mark in the Edit mode that Drag&Drop is
>>>>>> permitted (at least for the CKEditor - the wiki mode will still have
>>> the
>>>>>> same issue). Have a drag&drop behavior also for other file types, not
>>> just
>>>>>> images (for text files we could create a link for the attached file,
>>> etc.).
>>>>>> Plus have a link to manually go to the attachments viewer as a backup
>>> (by
>>>>>> fixing the 2 additional issues mentioned). The problem will still
>>> remain on
>>>>>> wiki mode, but let's say those users are more advanced and know how to
>>> use
>>>>>> viewers (although consistency between the edit modes would be ideal).
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Caty
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau <
>>>>>> guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>> Currently a user have 2 ways to attach a file to a wiki page:
>>>>>>> - in the attachment tab in VIEW mode only ;
>>>>>>> - if it's an image, using a WYSIWYG editor.
>>>>>>> However, if it's not an image, you cannot add it while you're writing
>>> the
>>>>>>> content. It's a bit as if you were not able to attach a file while you
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> writing an email... not user friendly!
>>>>>>> So we have this issue: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-5400
>>>>>>> To fix it, I see 2 options:
>>>>>>> - add the handling of attachments in edit mode.
>>>>>>> - add *all* docextra tabs like we have in view mode (it's not because
>>> you
>>>>>>> are editing a page that you don't need to see the history of the page,
>>>>>> nor
>>>>>>> the comments).
>>>>>>> But this might be not relevant for the class and the object editor.
>>>>>>> My proposal:
>>>>>>> * Display docextra tabs by default.
>>>>>>> * In class and object editors, set $docExtras = [].
>>>>>>> * Set $docExtras = [] in all sheets where we consider it's not
>>> relevant
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> have the tabs.
>>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>>> Thanks,

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