Maybe the best way to ensure that this project doesn't waste resources or get tied up in by-law hell is for somebody who values and knows about those things to volunteer to help ...
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Derek Balling <[email protected]> wrote: > That you see this as "griping", when it is in fact trying to ensure this > project happens without wasting valuable resources and without getting tied > up in by-law hell, signifies something huge, and deeply troubling, to me. > > D > > On May 9, 2014, at 2:54 PM, Evan Pettrey <[email protected]> wrote: > > All Martin has done at this point is ask for people to help organize a > virtual chapter. Has anybody at this point stated that there will be this > distinction (one way or the other) that everybody is so up in arms about? > > I took his email to mean he was just trying to get something beneficial to > all of us up and running and looking for people who'd be willing to help. > If we'd all invest as much effort in advancing LOPSA as we do griping about > the things those who are actually trying to make a difference do, LOPSA > could be a very different organization. > > > No good deed goes unpunished I suppose. > > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Well, for a local chapter, you have the "hallway track" around the >> meetings. >> >> But to have physical meetings, you have to have a place to meet, >> arranging a place to meet has a lot of overhead, and requies signatures and >> monitary commitments (if only in terms of insurance). >> >> To be able to say who is able to sign what, a Chapter organization is >> formed. To protect LOPSA, it also requires knowing that there are enough >> people to mitigate these costs and not bog down the national org. >> >> so for normal chapters, there are lots of reasons to ahve a formal >> Chapter, Chapter Officers, dues, etc. >> >> This is why the LOPSA by-laws have the specific definition. >> >> For what's being discussed, I'm in agreement that invoking the work >> "Chapter" and therefor all the by-laws and other administrivia overhead >> that comes with it will produce very little benefit (if any) and will eat >> up time that could be better spent providing the service that is being >> proposed (which, like other posters is something I would like to see) >> >> David Lang >> >> >> On Fri, 9 May 2014, Paul Graydon wrote: >> >> I have to say I'm with dballing here. If Chapter comes with a whole >>> bunch of overhead, based on existing lopsa by-laws why bother having this >>> as a chapter? What is the tangible benefit? That's what people aren't >>> really answering. You're focussing on what benefit the end product will >>> have, the actual content which *everyone* so far is in agreement that it >>> would be great. >>> >>> What is the advantage of it being a "Chapter"? >>> >>> Worse still, if the by-laws require this to be handled through the >>> locals committee, and they'll have to spend time working out how to fit it >>> in to a framework that wasn't really created with the concept of a virtual >>> chapter in mind... why do we want the locals committee to have to spend >>> their time doing that, unless there is an explicit benefit to be gained in >>> having this exist as a chapter? >>> >>> On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 01:35:04PM -0400, Derek Balling wrote: >>> >>>> I think I've made it clear I'm not bashing the idea. I *love* the >>>> idea, >>>> I've said so before a number of times now. >>>> I'm just saying not to focus on "Chapter" (which, per the LOPSA >>>> by-laws, >>>> has a very specific definition and set of requirements) and just >>>> focus on >>>> "The Content". >>>> D >>>> On May 9, 2014, at 1:32 PM, john boris <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> "Chapters", "Hangouts", Meetups, beer bashes, call it whatever you >>>> want. >>>> Martin is just trying to work within our current structure. We are >>>> in a >>>> technology that is constantly changing the landscape and the >>>> language. >>>> So in the onset they are called Virtual Chapters but later they >>>> may be >>>> called something else. At least he is trying to do something to >>>> stay >>>> with the times and the Technology. Why beat him up or trash the >>>> idea. >>>> The idea of this is that a "Virtual" Anything is what he is >>>> looking for >>>> and someone in the group to stand up and say "Yes I will do that" >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Derek Balling <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I feel like I can't stay out of this. >>>> Why do I need a chapter to schedule hangouts at 7ET, while >>>> Mario[1] >>>> schedules some hangouts for 7PT? And if Doug Hughes[2] decides >>>> he's >>>> staying up late tonight, he can "attend" Mario's 7PT session, >>>> even >>>> though he's on the east coast. >>>> Again - you're talking about something that needs organizers, >>>> but not >>>> necessarily "chapters". >>>> D >>>> [1] I'm not volunteering Mario. :-) >>>> [2] Nor do I believe Doug Hughes would ever stay up late. He's >>>> like >>>> the crotchety old man asleep by 8, get off my lawn. >>>> On May 9, 2014, at 1:21 PM, john boris <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The one advantage I see to having multiple Virtual Chapters is >>>> time >>>> zones. So an organizer on the West coast decides to hold the >>>> meetings at 8 PM. That is 11 PM on the East coast. Also with >>>> Multiple Virtual Chapters there could be multiple "Meetings" >>>> and >>>> people could then flock to the one that is most convenient to >>>> their >>>> schedule. >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Pamela Lynn Howell >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> IMO, what is actually needed is the *organizer* for the >>>> virtual >>>> chapter, whatever it may be called. >>>> ---p >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Derek Balling >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On May 9, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Evan Pettrey < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think you're being a bit pedantic here and I'm not >>>> sure it >>>> is necessary or beneficial to the discussion. >>>> >>>> I completely disagree. To ME, IMHO, going through this >>>> "virtual >>>> chapter" process is an unnecessary use of the scarce >>>> resource we >>>> have called "time". >>>> I think what he's talking about DOING is great. I think >>>> scheduling regular hangouts, etc., is a great thing for >>>> LOPSA >>>> members to have and participate in. I think consuming his >>>> time, >>>> the locals committee's time, etc., creating such a >>>> "chapter", >>>> however, is completely wasted. It smells of the type of >>>> "planning to plan" type of stuff that bogs down volunteer >>>> groups. >>>> What does he want? Social/technical/learning experiences >>>> with >>>> other LOPSA members who aren't geographically proximal? So >>>> make >>>> that happen, set up the schedule for the hangouts, etc., >>>> but >>>> don't get bogged down in all the details of the Locals >>>> policy, >>>> like figuring who the "chapter members" of record are, who >>>> allow >>>> the chapter to maintain its charter, etc., etc. Just >>>> schedule >>>> and advertise the hangouts and let any member who wants to >>>> be >>>> involved be involved. >>>> Every expense of scarce volunteer time should have an >>>> actual net >>>> beneficial outcome. Spending time on the virtual-chapter >>>> portion >>>> of this project doesn't do that. (Spending time on the >>>> "meat" of >>>> this project has plenty of benefits, obviously). >>>> I've said my piece, at this point. We're all grown-ups >>>> and can >>>> make our own life choices. :-) >>>> D >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System >>>> Administrators >>>> http://lopsa.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System >>>> Administrators >>>> http://lopsa.org/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John J. Boris, Sr. >>>> Online Services >>>> www.onlinesvc.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John J. Boris, Sr. >>>> Online Services >>>> www.onlinesvc.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >>>> http://lopsa.org/ >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >>> http://lopsa.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > -- Perfection is just a word I use occasionally with mustard. --Atom Powers--
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