All Martin has done at this point is ask for people to help organize a virtual chapter. Has anybody at this point stated that there will be this distinction (one way or the other) that everybody is so up in arms about?
I took his email to mean he was just trying to get something beneficial to all of us up and running and looking for people who'd be willing to help. If we'd all invest as much effort in advancing LOPSA as we do griping about the things those who are actually trying to make a difference do, LOPSA could be a very different organization. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose. On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, for a local chapter, you have the "hallway track" around the > meetings. > > But to have physical meetings, you have to have a place to meet, arranging > a place to meet has a lot of overhead, and requies signatures and monitary > commitments (if only in terms of insurance). > > To be able to say who is able to sign what, a Chapter organization is > formed. To protect LOPSA, it also requires knowing that there are enough > people to mitigate these costs and not bog down the national org. > > so for normal chapters, there are lots of reasons to ahve a formal > Chapter, Chapter Officers, dues, etc. > > This is why the LOPSA by-laws have the specific definition. > > For what's being discussed, I'm in agreement that invoking the work > "Chapter" and therefor all the by-laws and other administrivia overhead > that comes with it will produce very little benefit (if any) and will eat > up time that could be better spent providing the service that is being > proposed (which, like other posters is something I would like to see) > > David Lang > > > On Fri, 9 May 2014, Paul Graydon wrote: > > I have to say I'm with dballing here. If Chapter comes with a whole >> bunch of overhead, based on existing lopsa by-laws why bother having this >> as a chapter? What is the tangible benefit? That's what people aren't >> really answering. You're focussing on what benefit the end product will >> have, the actual content which *everyone* so far is in agreement that it >> would be great. >> >> What is the advantage of it being a "Chapter"? >> >> Worse still, if the by-laws require this to be handled through the locals >> committee, and they'll have to spend time working out how to fit it in to a >> framework that wasn't really created with the concept of a virtual chapter >> in mind... why do we want the locals committee to have to spend their time >> doing that, unless there is an explicit benefit to be gained in having this >> exist as a chapter? >> >> On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 01:35:04PM -0400, Derek Balling wrote: >> >>> I think I've made it clear I'm not bashing the idea. I *love* the >>> idea, >>> I've said so before a number of times now. >>> I'm just saying not to focus on "Chapter" (which, per the LOPSA >>> by-laws, >>> has a very specific definition and set of requirements) and just >>> focus on >>> "The Content". >>> D >>> On May 9, 2014, at 1:32 PM, john boris <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> "Chapters", "Hangouts", Meetups, beer bashes, call it whatever you >>> want. >>> Martin is just trying to work within our current structure. We are >>> in a >>> technology that is constantly changing the landscape and the >>> language. >>> So in the onset they are called Virtual Chapters but later they may >>> be >>> called something else. At least he is trying to do something to stay >>> with the times and the Technology. Why beat him up or trash the >>> idea. >>> The idea of this is that a "Virtual" Anything is what he is looking >>> for >>> and someone in the group to stand up and say "Yes I will do that" >>> >>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Derek Balling <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I feel like I can't stay out of this. >>> Why do I need a chapter to schedule hangouts at 7ET, while >>> Mario[1] >>> schedules some hangouts for 7PT? And if Doug Hughes[2] decides >>> he's >>> staying up late tonight, he can "attend" Mario's 7PT session, even >>> though he's on the east coast. >>> Again - you're talking about something that needs organizers, but >>> not >>> necessarily "chapters". >>> D >>> [1] I'm not volunteering Mario. :-) >>> [2] Nor do I believe Doug Hughes would ever stay up late. He's >>> like >>> the crotchety old man asleep by 8, get off my lawn. >>> On May 9, 2014, at 1:21 PM, john boris <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> The one advantage I see to having multiple Virtual Chapters is >>> time >>> zones. So an organizer on the West coast decides to hold the >>> meetings at 8 PM. That is 11 PM on the East coast. Also with >>> Multiple Virtual Chapters there could be multiple "Meetings" and >>> people could then flock to the one that is most convenient to >>> their >>> schedule. >>> >>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Pamela Lynn Howell >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> IMO, what is actually needed is the *organizer* for the >>> virtual >>> chapter, whatever it may be called. >>> ---p >>> >>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Derek Balling >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On May 9, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Evan Pettrey < >>> [email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think you're being a bit pedantic here and I'm not sure >>> it >>> is necessary or beneficial to the discussion. >>> >>> I completely disagree. To ME, IMHO, going through this >>> "virtual >>> chapter" process is an unnecessary use of the scarce >>> resource we >>> have called "time". >>> I think what he's talking about DOING is great. I think >>> scheduling regular hangouts, etc., is a great thing for >>> LOPSA >>> members to have and participate in. I think consuming his >>> time, >>> the locals committee's time, etc., creating such a >>> "chapter", >>> however, is completely wasted. It smells of the type of >>> "planning to plan" type of stuff that bogs down volunteer >>> groups. >>> What does he want? Social/technical/learning experiences >>> with >>> other LOPSA members who aren't geographically proximal? So >>> make >>> that happen, set up the schedule for the hangouts, etc., but >>> don't get bogged down in all the details of the Locals >>> policy, >>> like figuring who the "chapter members" of record are, who >>> allow >>> the chapter to maintain its charter, etc., etc. Just >>> schedule >>> and advertise the hangouts and let any member who wants to >>> be >>> involved be involved. >>> Every expense of scarce volunteer time should have an >>> actual net >>> beneficial outcome. Spending time on the virtual-chapter >>> portion >>> of this project doesn't do that. (Spending time on the >>> "meat" of >>> this project has plenty of benefits, obviously). >>> I've said my piece, at this point. We're all grown-ups and >>> can >>> make our own life choices. :-) >>> D >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> This list provided by the League of Professional System >>> Administrators >>> http://lopsa.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> This list provided by the League of Professional System >>> Administrators >>> http://lopsa.org/ >>> >>> -- >>> John J. Boris, Sr. >>> Online Services >>> www.onlinesvc.com >>> >>> -- >>> John J. Boris, Sr. >>> Online Services >>> www.onlinesvc.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >>> http://lopsa.org/ >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ >
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