That you see this as "griping", when it is in fact trying to ensure this project happens without wasting valuable resources and without getting tied up in by-law hell, signifies something huge, and deeply troubling, to me.
D On May 9, 2014, at 2:54 PM, Evan Pettrey <[email protected]> wrote: > All Martin has done at this point is ask for people to help organize a > virtual chapter. Has anybody at this point stated that there will be this > distinction (one way or the other) that everybody is so up in arms about? > > I took his email to mean he was just trying to get something beneficial to > all of us up and running and looking for people who'd be willing to help. If > we'd all invest as much effort in advancing LOPSA as we do griping about the > things those who are actually trying to make a difference do, LOPSA could be > a very different organization. > > > No good deed goes unpunished I suppose. > > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:37 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, for a local chapter, you have the "hallway track" around the meetings. > > But to have physical meetings, you have to have a place to meet, arranging a > place to meet has a lot of overhead, and requies signatures and monitary > commitments (if only in terms of insurance). > > To be able to say who is able to sign what, a Chapter organization is formed. > To protect LOPSA, it also requires knowing that there are enough people to > mitigate these costs and not bog down the national org. > > so for normal chapters, there are lots of reasons to ahve a formal Chapter, > Chapter Officers, dues, etc. > > This is why the LOPSA by-laws have the specific definition. > > For what's being discussed, I'm in agreement that invoking the work "Chapter" > and therefor all the by-laws and other administrivia overhead that comes with > it will produce very little benefit (if any) and will eat up time that could > be better spent providing the service that is being proposed (which, like > other posters is something I would like to see) > > David Lang > > > On Fri, 9 May 2014, Paul Graydon wrote: > > I have to say I'm with dballing here. If Chapter comes with a whole bunch of > overhead, based on existing lopsa by-laws why bother having this as a > chapter? What is the tangible benefit? That's what people aren't really > answering. You're focussing on what benefit the end product will have, the > actual content which *everyone* so far is in agreement that it would be great. > > What is the advantage of it being a "Chapter"? > > Worse still, if the by-laws require this to be handled through the locals > committee, and they'll have to spend time working out how to fit it in to a > framework that wasn't really created with the concept of a virtual chapter in > mind... why do we want the locals committee to have to spend their time doing > that, unless there is an explicit benefit to be gained in having this exist > as a chapter? > > On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 01:35:04PM -0400, Derek Balling wrote: > I think I've made it clear I'm not bashing the idea. I *love* the idea, > I've said so before a number of times now. > I'm just saying not to focus on "Chapter" (which, per the LOPSA by-laws, > has a very specific definition and set of requirements) and just focus on > "The Content". > D > On May 9, 2014, at 1:32 PM, john boris <[email protected]> wrote: > > "Chapters", "Hangouts", Meetups, beer bashes, call it whatever you want. > Martin is just trying to work within our current structure. We are in a > technology that is constantly changing the landscape and the language. > So in the onset they are called Virtual Chapters but later they may be > called something else. At least he is trying to do something to stay > with the times and the Technology. Why beat him up or trash the idea. > The idea of this is that a "Virtual" Anything is what he is looking for > and someone in the group to stand up and say "Yes I will do that" > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Derek Balling <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I feel like I can't stay out of this. > Why do I need a chapter to schedule hangouts at 7ET, while Mario[1] > schedules some hangouts for 7PT? And if Doug Hughes[2] decides he's > staying up late tonight, he can "attend" Mario's 7PT session, even > though he's on the east coast. > Again - you're talking about something that needs organizers, but not > necessarily "chapters". > D > [1] I'm not volunteering Mario. :-) > [2] Nor do I believe Doug Hughes would ever stay up late. He's like > the crotchety old man asleep by 8, get off my lawn. > On May 9, 2014, at 1:21 PM, john boris <[email protected]> wrote: > > The one advantage I see to having multiple Virtual Chapters is time > zones. So an organizer on the West coast decides to hold the > meetings at 8 PM. That is 11 PM on the East coast. Also with > Multiple Virtual Chapters there could be multiple "Meetings" and > people could then flock to the one that is most convenient to their > schedule. > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Pamela Lynn Howell > <[email protected]> wrote: > > IMO, what is actually needed is the *organizer* for the virtual > chapter, whatever it may be called. > ---p > > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Derek Balling > <[email protected]> wrote: > > On May 9, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Evan Pettrey <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I think you're being a bit pedantic here and I'm not sure it > is necessary or beneficial to the discussion. > > I completely disagree. To ME, IMHO, going through this "virtual > chapter" process is an unnecessary use of the scarce resource we > have called "time". > I think what he's talking about DOING is great. I think > scheduling regular hangouts, etc., is a great thing for LOPSA > members to have and participate in. I think consuming his time, > the locals committee's time, etc., creating such a "chapter", > however, is completely wasted. It smells of the type of > "planning to plan" type of stuff that bogs down volunteer > groups. > What does he want? Social/technical/learning experiences with > other LOPSA members who aren't geographically proximal? So make > that happen, set up the schedule for the hangouts, etc., but > don't get bogged down in all the details of the Locals policy, > like figuring who the "chapter members" of record are, who allow > the chapter to maintain its charter, etc., etc. Just schedule > and advertise the hangouts and let any member who wants to be > involved be involved. > Every expense of scarce volunteer time should have an actual net > beneficial outcome. Spending time on the virtual-chapter portion > of this project doesn't do that. (Spending time on the "meat" of > this project has plenty of benefits, obviously). > I've said my piece, at this point. We're all grown-ups and can > make our own life choices. :-) > D > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System > Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System > Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > -- > John J. Boris, Sr. > Online Services > www.onlinesvc.com > > -- > John J. Boris, Sr. > Online Services > www.onlinesvc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ >
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