I agree with Ivan. As a seasoned instructor I like having a bunch of challenges to pick from, but we have so many new instructors that having a lesson that they can teach out of the box is valuable. I would propose having a standard set of manageable exercises and an auxiliary file the rest for more experienced instructors to choose from.
-Azalee ------------------------------------------------------- K. Azalee Bostroem Graduate Student UC Davis http://azaleebostroem.wordpress.com ------------------------------------------------------- On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Ivan Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote: > Sure, but then I think that some challenges should be labelled as extras, or > move to a "homework" file. Also, a novice instructor may have not know this > or which are the best to pick. In my experience what happens is that as the > lesson advances and the accumulated delay with respect to the time estimate > grows, instructors tend to drop challenges at all, and simply go through the > materials. > > We could have notes in the instructor guides stating that. For example, "for > topic 1, you should cover challenges 1 and 2 because they are important, and > pick up another from the list of challenges. The estimated time to complete > these three challenges is 10 minutes." > > Ivan > > El 31/03/2015, a las 12:46, Bill Mills <[email protected]> escribió: > >> One crucial thing to note: you don't have to actually *do* all the >> challenges - I certainly don't. >> >> I think it's valuable to have a large selection of challenges for >> instructors to pick from, to reflect exactly what they want to emphasize; as >> we encouraged new instructors to add new challenges, the intention was never >> for everyone to do every challenge every time. But, that could be much >> better communicated. >> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Ivan Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote: >> I can't attend the meeting tomorrow, but I agree with the plan. >> >> We could also set some guidelines for maintainers on how long a lesson would >> be. For example, limits in the number of challenges, lines of code, or even >> words per topic. I don't pretend to put a hard limit, but just as a function >> with 100 lines and 20 nested loops "smells of bad code", a topic with more >> than 5 learning objectives or more than 5 challenges is probably bloated. >> >> Best, >> >> Ivan >> >> El 31/03/2015, a las 12:01, Greg Wilson <[email protected]> >> escribió: >> >>> I agree - how's this for a plan? >>> >>> 1. Maintainers for each lesson file an issue suggesting material that can >>> be moved into discussion.md (a storage depot for extra stuff). >>> >>> 2. We ask trainees to submit exercises (particularly MCQs) rather than new >>> content. >>> >>> Ivan/Gabriel, would you be willing to lead discussion of this at tomorrow's >>> lab meeting? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Greg >>> >>> On 2015-03-31 11:38 AM, Gabriel A. Devenyi wrote: >>>> I've had a recent similar concern regarding the shell lessons. >>>> >>>> I think the root cause of this may be the final assignment for instructor >>>> training, it's probably easiest for people to just add material. We may >>>> need to re-spin that assignment a bit so we don't encourage bloat. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gabriel A. Devenyi B.Eng. Ph.D. >>>> Research Computing Associate >>>> Computational Brain Anatomy Laboratory >>>> Cerebral Imaging Center >>>> Douglas Mental Health University Institute >>>> McGill University >>>> t: 514.761.6131x4781 >>>> e: [email protected] >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Ivan Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm going through the Python novice lesson for a workshop I'm teaching >>>> this week. It's been a few months since the last time I taught it and I've >>>> noticed that the lesson has increased substantially. I feel the same with >>>> the git novice lesson: in the last couple of months I'm the maintainer, >>>> we've added a good 15 minutes in a lesson that most instructors and >>>> learners have trouble finishing. Also, I think these additions are not >>>> reflected properly in the estimated times. >>>> >>>> For example, the first topic of the python lesson [1] has now 10 >>>> challenges, plus variables, memory model, operators, importing a module, >>>> numpy arrays, slicing and indexing, methods for objects, plotting with >>>> matplotlib, and some strings. The estimated time is 30 minutes, which >>>> leaves me with ~2 mins per concept and 1 minute per challenge, where I'm >>>> supposed to correctly type and run more than 50 lines of code. I also have >>>> to show how iPython notebook works. I think this is not doable for the >>>> average novice learner and instructor. >>>> >>>> As I said, this is not specific to the Python lesson. In a workshop I >>>> taught last week, a similar situation with other lessons created a lot of >>>> frustration among the students and, specially, among the instructors and >>>> helpers (all first-timers but me). >>>> >>>> I understand that we all want to contribute to the lessons and add the >>>> last best thing, but we are risking that our lessons become more a >>>> self-study material, instead of something instructors can use in a >>>> workshop. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Ivan >>>> >>>> [1] http://swcarpentry.github.io/python-novice-inflammation/01-numpy.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Greg Wilson | [email protected] >>> Software Carpentry | http://software-carpentry.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >> >> >> >> -- >> Best Regards, >> Bill Mills >> Community Manager >> Mozilla Science Lab > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org
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