On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:56:31 -0400 Jeremy Gray <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think the cognitive load of Atom (or any new fancy text editor) is > being underestimated. I totally agree with this. I tried Atom once, and thought: "this looks great, but I'll need some time to get into it". nano fits perfectly because of the reasons stated before: just check the bottom line and you're ready to concentrate on what you are really learning, not the editor. Inigo > I really like Atom, but a workshop might not be > the best place to start people using it. > > A lot of the time people are using whatever works, and if you ask > them to change, you need a good reason - nano has the benefit of > running on the command line. > > As a data point, I ran a course on Python as a contractor for a bunch > of most self taught programmers (data analysts) last year, and as > part of the prep, gave a survey on text editor use (NB AQT is a SQL > tool the company has a license for). > > Other than me, no one was using Atom: > AQT: 14 > Sublime: 3 > Emacs: 1 > Vim: 2 > Notepad++: 22 > Eclipse: 1 > Notepad: 4 > other: 4 > > > On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Carol Willing < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > I would also encourage the move to Atom as the default editor. I > > believe that Atom offers benefits that nano, while simple, does not > > offer. > > > > Installation of Atom is very stable. It works out of the box with no > > additional configuration. It's "an editor that will be welcoming to > > an elementary school student on their first day learning to code, > > but also a tool they won't outgrow as they develop into seasoned > > hackers." [1] > > > > The 3 minute "Getting Started" video highlights the simplicity of > > Atom's usage while leaving the door open to future extensibility by > > the user. [2] The documentation is excellent, particularly the > > "Atom Basics" page, which can be viewed in Linux, macOS, or Windows > > [3] > > > > Unlike nano, Atom was designed for people familiar with web > > browsing, and it could be argued that nano while seeming simple to > > some is more difficult to those that have grown up using the web > > browser daily. Having taught many students in different workshops, > > Atom just works. It takes minutes to install and students have no > > difficulty using it. I haven't seen students have difficulty > > opening a file or navigating directories. > > > > As an instructor, while I am ok using nano, I would welcome using > > Atom. > > > > Carol > > > > [1] http://flight-manual.atom.io/getting-started/sections/why-atom/ > > [2] https://atom.io/docs > > [3] http://flight-manual.atom.io/getting-started/sections/atom- > > basics/#platform-mac > > > > -- > > Carol Willing > > > > Research Software Engineer, Project Jupyter > > Cal Poly San Luis Obispo > > > > Director, Python Software Foundation > > > > Strengths: Empathy, Relator, Ideation, Strategic, Learner > > > > > > Mark Laufersweiler wrote: > > > > I am against the move to atom for several reasonsI am not a big > > lover of nano but over the course of teaching computing skills to > > meteorology students for 20 years and working with the Carpentries > > for 3+ years nano works for a first editor for several reasons. > > > > The first reason goes to the core of what we learned as instructors, > > cognitive overload. On top of all the new information a learner is > > receiving regarding shell, nano has the feature of all the important > > commands being listed at the bottom of the editor. Nothing needs to > > be learned about the editor. Fire it up, edit the file and when the > > question comes how to quit, how to save, a learner just looks at > > the list at the bottom. The one item to learn is that ^ means the > > Control key and then the letter following the ^ are hit in > > sequence, holding down the Control key. It is simple and bare > > bones. Nothing more complex to learn than that. > > > > This leads to the one quirk of Atom. Where is the open file option > > in any of the menus? There is no directory tree or option window to > > have a person move to a file outside of the directory that atom was > > evoked. You now need to switch teaching about the shell to now > > teaching about how Atom revolves around projects and that a project > > is a directory and it you want to open a file not seen in the file > > listing window, you open a new project folder. The file listing > > tree looks nothing like a OSX Finder or MS FileExplorer window. The > > concept adds a layer of abstraction that is not about the shell, > > but about project/file system management that is a distraction not > > a help. It is not Notepad or TextEdit which most learners will have > > in used their prior experiences with GUI editors that are not > > Office. > > > > Is nano perfect. Oh no. It in actuality terrible for code or long > > document editing. But keep in mind that we as instructors may have > > some expert bias creeping in. Think back to when you first started > > (ok, I am showing my age) when the choices were vi (not vim), emacs > > and this little editor that installed with pine called nano. We > > talk about in the Carpentries that our learners come to the > > workshops to learn that there are better ways to work. Editor > > choices work the same way. Starting out nano is fine, but as one > > learns more, they realize that there may be a better way. They can > > then work that out for themselves. I point this out to the learners > > in a work shop that after the workshop, when revisiting the > > lessons, they may want to work with a text editor that more fits > > their workflows and personal preferences. But during the course of > > learning shell, git and a programing language, I do not want to > > spend any more time than I have to other than to say “All the > > editing commands that you will need to use are at the bottom of > > your screen and the hat or carrot symbol means that you type and > > hold the control key and then the letter, follow and answer the > > questions and you should be back at the prompt in your shell”. > > Most of the issues raised in this discussion are valid but not > > appropriate for beginners but in line with intermediate and advance > > users. > > > > There are work arounds for when nano does not install. For MS > > Windows, just have the learner type in the gitbash “start notepad > > [file]” and this will open notepad (or notepad++). Most beginning > > learners will have some familiarity with notepad. (For OSX, it is > > “open file.txt”.) > > > > Finally, the issue of installing a linux emulated environment of MS > > Windows will be much easier when leaners all be on Windows 10. With > > the latest OS, they can install the developer package for Ubuntu. > > Then git and nano are just apt-get install nano git. > > https://www.howtogeek.com/?p= 249966 > > > > -mjl > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mark Laufersweiler > > [email protected] > > > > Bad weather looks best through an open window. > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 30, at 4:58 AM, Raniere Silva <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > today at the workshop, > > one of the our Windows learners asked me why after quit nano the > > previous command weren't available when scroll the window up. > > The learner was very annoyed to not be able to see the history. > > > > I would like to motion to change nano with Atom as the > > recommended/default text editor for our workshops. I don't want to > > start yet another flame war, we already had lots and lots of > > discussion about this, so I will summarise the benefits and > > drawback of my proposal. I will ask that before suggest another > > text editor instead of Atom, stop and think that the text editor > > will benefit novice learners instead of just make your life easy as > > instructor because you use X on your daily work. (I don't use Atom!) > > > > # Benefits > > > > - Is open source. > > - (Just) works in Windows, Mac and Linux. > > - Easy to install in Windows, Mac and Linux. > > - "All versions" are available to Windows, Mac and Linux. > > > > Some software, e.g. Skype, works in Windows, Mac and Linux but > > different versions are available to different OS. > > - Configure PATH to be accessible from Git Bash. > > > > No need for extra configuration or our script to fix PATH. > > - Well mantained and supported. > > - Syntax highlight out of the box (AFAIK). > > - Lots of plugins for learners that decide to keep using Atom. > > > > AFAIK there is a plugin that allow learners to use Atom > > to edit remote files, e.g. on clusters. > > - Beautiful interface. > > > > # Drawback > > > > - Learners and instructions will need to switch windows. > > > > # (My own) conclusions > > > > Replace nano with Atom will avoid many of the our issues during the > > workshop, such as "we will use nano but if you don't have nano you > > can use X", and reduce the volunteer work that we need to maintain > > the quality of our workshops. The price that we will need to pay is > > switch windows during the workshop. > > > > Thanks, > > Raniere > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing > > [email protected]http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss > > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss
