Since I may have started some of this, please let me clarify my
original concern.  It was specifically these two paragraphs.

======================
I think that in the past, one learned shell to move around, nano to
edit, then one used nano and the shell to create R or Python files,
which were run from the command line, and all of the code was under
Git control which was also run from the command line.  That scheme has
an internal coherence, it builds skill upon skill, and there is a
recognizable goal.

The lessons seem to be getting more and more independent and less and
less like parts of something bigger -- at least that's how I would see
it from a participants perspective and based on the anecdotes I have
from people who've been to recent camps.
======================

I think the overall idea of a command-line, scripted workflow is
getting lost in the local concerns within lessons which are more and
more GUI-oriented and independent of the command line.

One of the things that first drew me to SWC is that it appeared to
have a coherent, end-to-end philosophy, and the lessons supported that
and made that philosophy more clear.  That has diminished, and the
connections between the shell lessons and the others are now more
tenuous.

As I said in the original post, maybe the world moves on, and I will
deal with that on my own.

I just thought I would try one more time to make clear that it is the
relationship among the lessons that I feel is not getting enough
attention.  I thought the original SWC scheme was well-connected from
lesson to lesson.  I think that is less so now.

My due diligence is to try to help make that a conscious and explicit
decision and not the result of drift.  If that is where people want to
go, all the best!

Sorry for not being better at communicating.


On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Kate Hertweck <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Thanks so much contributing your opinions and experiences to this
> discussion. The Steering Committee is following this conversation with great
> interest, in the hopes of developing some methods for alleviating hiccups
> during workshops. There appear to be two separate concerns being voiced
> here: 1) What are the goals of the SWC shell lesson? and 2) How can we
> improve the logistics of installing/using a text editor with the shell
> lesson?
>
> If you would like to continue the conversation about the first concern and
> the goals of the shell lesson, please redirect your comments to this issue
> [1], which will allow us to track community consensus more accurately. This
> lesson has been taught enough that we have a good idea how it is perceived
> by our learners, and it seems the time is right to revisit our learning
> objectives and see how they match student interests.
>
> If you’re interested in more information about instructor preferences and
> possible solutions for the second concern (text editors for the shell
> lesson), you will find this issue of interest [2] and we hope you will
> continue to add comments there.
>
> For now, the Windows installer isn't working, so while we're working to fix
> that, we'll add instructions for using Atom in a workshop. If you are an
> instructor teaching the shell lesson soon and are comfortable using Atom
> (and helping your students get it installed!), please try it out and add to
> this issue [3] to let us know how it worked. We'll get in touch with people
> teaching upcoming workshops to let them know about this issue and potential
> solutions.
>
> [1] https://github.com/swcarpentry/shell-novice/issues/542
> [2] https://github.com/carpentries/conversations/issues/11
> [3] https://github.com/swcarpentry/workshop-template/issues/390
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Karin Lagesen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 30.03.2017 18:15, Carol Willing wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Unlike nano, Atom was designed for people familiar with web browsing,
>>> and it could be argued that nano while seeming simple to some is more
>>> difficult to those that have grown up using the web browser daily.
>>> Having taught many students in different workshops, Atom just works. It
>>> takes minutes to install and students have no difficulty using it. I
>>> haven't seen students have difficulty opening a file or navigating
>>> directories.
>>
>>
>> I have taught plenty of 20-something people who had very flimsy ideas of
>> what a file system was, what a directory was, and where their files were.
>> This is something they do learn in the shell lesson, but still, having them
>> maneuver in the directory structure like this for an editor will take time
>> away from teaching them all the other stuff in the lesson.
>>
>> I have no big opinions on editors as such, but for SWC I strongly think it
>> should be a terminal based editor to avoid these issues.
>>
>> Karin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kate L. Hertweck, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor, Department of Biology
> The University of Texas at Tyler
> 3900 University Blvd., Tyler, TX 75799
> Email: [email protected]
> Office: HPR 109, 903.565.5882
> https://www.uttyler.edu/biology/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/listinfo/discuss
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