Hi, From the side line, look for a Gov or Fed site too target. Cheers Stan. On 22 Oct 2008, at 12:09 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
Hi Dave Definitely an interesting idea. On Oct 21, 2008, at 14:38, David Poehlman wrote:The only way I can think of to effectively address this issue would be to find a site that uses flash that can be proven to be inaccessible o vo that part is easy. then we file a class action suite in callifornia or perhapspensylvania or maybe we first hire lady feingold to help us lobby thedevelopper to make it accessible. we explain that we don't wat the flash to go away but that we want the flash to be made accessible. we draw adobe into it through the developper seeking assistance from them to do this but it has to be a huge site. maybe one of the sites already bitten would be willing to take this on through a partnership if enough of us sign on.----- Original Message ----- From: "Cara Quinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X bytheblind" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: why won't this read on mac This is exactly my question at this point, if we need to make ourselves heard, which I truly believe we do now, in regard to this issue, how might we consider proceeding?… I feel this is really an important issue as I've said, but I'm just not sure what step to take next in this regard. Thanks so far to those who have responded to this. Have a terrific day!… Smiles, Cara :) On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:The situation hasn't changed. Frankly, I don't see NFB getting involved in flash accessibility for Mac, the only reason they really bothered with iTunes was that it was pretty much inaccessible on Windows. Most of them didn't even know it was 95% accessible on the Mac already before iTunes 8 and those who did know seemed to pretend not to. Seeing as how Adobe can claim that they've done their part on Windows (whether they have or not isn't the point, but they can say they have) they'll probably end up being left alone by the major organizations. Not that Adobe is particularly committed to accessibility, if they were they'd remove the option in Adobe Acrobat that allows PDFs to be rendered unreadable by most screen readers, as far as I know that option is still there and still works. And do remember that the work on Flash accessibility was done by Macromedia before Adobe bought them. The only way we're going to get equal flash access is to raise some serious racket. Aside from writing to Adobe and Apple, where else should we all shout? On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:06, David Poehlman wrote:Hi C B, They do not mention mac accessibility at all as far as I know. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Blouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: Re: why won't this read on mac Seems like if NFB can get $250K out of Apple for its issues with iTunes accessibility then Adobe should be concerned over its Flash accessibility. Now I'm not a Flash dev but what I've heard is that there is something you have to enable to add the accessibility stuff, but thatoption is somewhat buried in the developer UI, is off by default, andadds some weight to the overall download. Also, like any GUI, the built-in widgets supposedly have a lot of accessibility (if turned on)but many Flash devs make their own and don't bother. All this said, Idon't believe they have any of this working for the Mac unless something changed with Flash 10. CB Cara Quinn wrote:Jacob, thanks very much for your in-depth note. I'm wondering, whyon earth would Adobe chide anyone for wanting access to their products?… I mean, saying that basically nobody wants Flash access on Mac is a bit over the top, is it not?… Sighted people whom useSafari, simply have access to this as a matter of course on a day to day basis, so something seriously seems amiss here with this kind ofattitude?…<smile> Not to play two ends against the middle here, so to speak,but isn't this the sort of thing that the NFB / ACB should be interested in?… I mean, this is a rather largeish corporationblatantly locking out a segment of the population, is it not?… -Allbe it, a smallish one, but a segment just the same, and based on a disability, no less. Sounds like a shameless stereotypical discriminatory act to me… -Opinions?… Have a great day!… Smiles, Cara :) On Oct 17, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote:Hi Well, looking at it realistically, about the only thing we can do is bug the hell out of Adobe until they get sick of us I guess :).Seriously, Flash is a closed source product, so we can't change it. Apple can't do it on their own because the flashplayer, which Apple has no rights to, does not expose any of the flash content--it does expose that there's a flash object there, reported by an unknown inrecent builds of Webkit, but no content is exposed through it.Basically, Apple and Adobe might have to work together on this, solet's bug them relentlessly--both Adobe and Apple--and maybesomething will happen. I'm suggesting bugging Apple as well, since maybe it will take a big boy like Apple to get Adobe moving as noneof us have had any luck so far and in fact some of us have been derided for wanting flash accessibility on OS X--derided, I might add, by Adobe themselves. According to Adobe we should just be usingWindows, and no one wants Flash accessibility on the Mac anyway--in other words, no demand for it. Which doesn't make sense as there'sobviously some demand or we wouldn't be bothering to email them about it. Either that or cross our fingers that one of the opensource flash replacements will eventually achieve full compatibility with the current state of flash... I'm not going to hold my breath on that one though. Interesting question I was pondering: exactly how much for accessibility has Adobe done on the windows side? I'm stressing Adobe here, as back when flash was being made accessible it was still ownedand developed by Macromedia, and I haven't seen much improvement in the intervening time since at least not in Flash itself. Completely unrelated to Flash access on OS X, just a question I was pondering.On Oct 17, 2008, at 11:30, Cara Quinn wrote:I was thinking about this again this morning, and there's simply got to be something we can do about this?… I mean Flash is here, it's going to stay and until the next similartech in web design shows itself, we're going to be left out in thecold as Mac / VO / Safari users if something isn't done. This to me at least, is simply unacceptable. Something really does need to change here, and fast. I absolutely *do not* want to go to Windows so that I can browse flash content. There's just no reason for it.What, in people's opinions can we do about this?… How can this beapproached / dealt with?… I for one, absolutely *need* flash access, so just asking sites not to use it is moot.Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here in hopes that peeps mightchime in with opinions / ideas and such.Thanks so much for taking time to read this and I hope you all arehaving a wonderful day! Smiles, Cara :) On Oct 17, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:Because it's one big blob of Flash. CB Will Lomas wrote:hi i wonder why this site http://www.clairescareers.co.uk/ won't read on the mac again all i get is HTML content no interaction possible even when i trick safari into thinking it is internet explorer--- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn--- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn--- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
