Hi David,
On Oct 26, 2008, at 6:45 AM, David Poehlman wrote:
you are so vivid!
Vivid is as vivid does -- but I noticed (now) that I typed Command and
Option instead of Control and Option for the VoiceOver keys. Better
to be accurate! The problem with these long posts is that typing
keyboard descriptions is no replacement for muscle memory. I don't
usually make that mistake (VO=Control-Option is corrected below)
though -- I more likely to type in the wrong sequence for
"interact" (VO-Shift-Down Arrow).
Oh, well, the archives will record my typing mistakes for posterity.
Sorry about the mistake, Estelita.
Cheers,
Esther
If you bring up the VoiceOver utility
with VO-F8 (where VO or VO-keys is used to mean holding down the
Control and Option keys --- so you hold down the Control and Option
keys and then press the F8 key to bring up the VoiceOver utility),
----- Original Message -----
From: "Esther" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: numpad commander
Hi Estelita,
Like Jacob, I don't really use NumPad Commander -- both because I'm
used to Tiger and because my new MacBook doesn't support a numeric
keypad. So there are probably other people who can give you better
information on NumPad Commander. However, there are a few ways to
check out the default settings. If you bring up the VoiceOver utility
with VO-F8 (where VO or VO-keys is used to mean holding down the
Command and Option keys --- so you hold down the Command and Option
keys and then press the F8 key to bring up the VoiceOver utility), you
can check what the default settings for NumPad Commander are. Press
"N U" to select the NumPad option and VO-right arrow to view the
settings. If NumPad Commander is activated (which you took care of
with VO-clear), you'll hear "Enable NumPad Commander, checkbox".
Using VO-space will let you toggle this between checked and unchecked
status. If the box is checked for NumPad Commander enabled, you can
VO-right arrow to the table of settings and interact (VO-keys Shift-
Down arrow -- or in your case, with NumPad Commander on, just press
the "+" key of the numeric keypad instead of using VO-Shift-Down arrow
to interact). Then, if you VO-right arrow through the table you'll
hear the numeric keypad key and it's assigned VoiceOver command. Stop
interacting with the table (by pressing "-" on the numeric keypad) and
quit VoiceOver Utility (Command-Q) when you're done.
You can read about the default NumPad Commander settings and how to
re-
assign them in the VoiceOver Getting Started Leopard 10.5 guide. I've
inserted below the relevant sections (pasted in) about the default key
assignments, and how to custom assign new key assignments in the table
for NumPad Commander in the VoiceOver Utility. You can access the PDF
file (or other formats of this guide) at:
http://www.cucat.org/books/vogs/vogs.php
If you use Preview to read the VoiceOver Getting Started guide (the
default application for PDF files), you can navigate to the sections
that describe assigning these commands by using Command-Option-G (Go
to Page Number -- also accessible through the "Go" menu on the Preview
menu bar -- so with NumPad Commander on you could press "clear" then
"G" to navigate to the "Go" menu, then down arrow into the menu and
press "G" again to get the "Go to Page Number" command if you didn't
remember the shortcut). Then type in "99" without the quotation marks
and press return to go directly to page 99 of the Getting Started
Guide. You can Bookmark this page (I've done this, because I've
already had to look up the NumPad assignments a few times <smile>) by
pressing Command-D and typing in a bookmark name -- like "NumPad
Shortcuts" -- and then pressing return. Now, whenever you're in
Preview, and navigate to the Bookmarks menu of the menu bar and select
this bookmark (press "clear" then "b", then arrow down to "NumPad
Shortcuts" or type "N" after the first down arrow to get to this
bookmark and return), you will open the VoiceOver Getting Started
Leopard document at this page in Preview. It doesn't even matter that
you haven't selected this Document in finder.
You can bookmark any pages in any Preview documents that you go back
to frequently. It's also possible to run searches for terms in the
document, find their locations in the Preview sidebar, and read the
corresponding page in the document. For more information on using
Preview, check Tim Kilburn's VoiceOver web pages on the Preview app:
http://homepage.mac.com/kilburns/voiceover/preview5.html
Anyway, others can help you with useful NumPad Commander assignments.
The value of this is that you can customize VoiceOver shortcuts or
combinations that you frequently use and assign them to numeric keypad
keys with NumPad Commander. I'm also puzzled as to why Apple removed
the numeric keypad combinations on notebooks and on their wireless
keyboards at about the same time they introduced NumPad Commander in
Leopard. It's certainly something I would use if I were starting to
learn VoiceOver and had access to a numeric keypad.
<begin quote on NumPad Commander assignments>
Key assignment Command
1 Moves to the last visible item
Shift-1 Moves to the last item
2 Moves down
4 Moves left
5 Clicks the mouse
6 Moves right
7 Moves to the first visible item
Shift-7 Moves to the first item
8 Moves up
9 Opens the Item Chooser menu
Plus Starts interacting with an item
Minus Stops interacting with an item
Clear Moves to the Menu bar
Period Escape
0-Equal Hear the window overview
0-5 Read the visible text
To assign actions to the numeric keypad:
1 Press VO-8 to open VoiceOver Utility and then select NumPad in the
category table.
2 Make sure the Enable NumPad Commander checkbox is selected.
3 If you want to use a modifier key with the numeric keypad key,
click the Modifier pop up menu at the bottom of the window and choose
the modifier key you want to use.
4 Click the NumPad key you want to use.
5 Use the pop-up button arrow keys on the right to move up or down
the menu of commands until you find the command you want to assign to
the key.
6 Press Return to assign the command to the key.
7 Continue doing this until you have all the assignments you want.
<end quote>
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Esther
On Oct 25, 2008, at 7:16 PM, Estelita wrote:
Hi,
I can activate the NumPad Commander by pressing option + ctrl +
clear, and read the keys functions by activating the key practice.
Does it give different functions when it is configured from the
voice over utility?
Thank you.
----- Original Message ----- From: "louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: numpad commander
The commander is configured from the voice over utility. I have the 5
key configured as a mouse click, pressing the 0 key with the 5 key
brings up a context menu. The enter key puts focus on the desktop.
The
dot key says the context of the voice over cursor. 0 and the period
keys tells me the label of buttons and check box. The * key takes me
to the dock. The / key brings up the window chouser menu. The = key
brings up the app chouser. The rest of the keys are what that were
defined as they were.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Estelita wrote:
Hi,
What other commands do you use numpad commander with?
I have it on my keyboard, but not much use of it.
Perhaps you can instruct me to right direction.
Thank you.
----- Original Message ----- From: "louie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac
OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: numpad commander
OK for you who have a laptop why not get a external numpad? I use
the
numpad commander all of the time. Not sure that I could operate the
Mac with out it. Just a thought.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Esther wrote:
Hi Randy and Jacob,
The situation with the new laptops without the numeric keypad
option (on MacBooks these are the models manufactured after
November 2007) is slightly weirder, but basically Jacob is
correct. The slightly weird part comes about because laptops
also support a Universal Access menu feature called "Mouse Keys"
that lets folks who have mobility problems move the position of
their mouse cursor using the numeric keypad keys. When you
reference the central key or "5" in a numeric keypad for the
position of the mouse cursor, pressing the key above it ("2")
will move the mouse cursor up one screen pixel unit, pressing
the key below it ("8") will move the mouse cursor down one
screen pixel unit, and similarly for left ("4") and right ("6")
motion. You could also move diagonally (up and to the left with
"1", up and to the right with "3", etc.)
On the older laptops, there were two ways you could use the
numeric keypad keys with Mouse Keys activated: You could either
first toggle on the numeric keypad by pressing the Numlock (F6)
key. That turned the right hand side of your laptop into a
numeric keypad, so "7-8-9" mapped to the same numbers on the
numeric keypad, "u-i-o" mapped to "4-5-6", and "j-k-l" mapped to
"1-2-3". (All this would be announced correctly in VoiceOver
and you could use keyboard practice mode to check the keys; you
also got the plus, minus, 0, comma, period, and other numpad
keys adjacent to these.) Alternatively, you could press the Fn
key in combination with the Numpad letter keys to get the
equivalent Numpad functions without toggling the Numlock key on:
Fn+u, Fn+i, and Fn+o was like pressing "4-5-6" on a numeric
keypad. The "I" key was the center of the numeric keypad, and
corresponded to "5".
Even though Apple removed the Numlock key in the later model
laptops, they still had to support users who needed to use Mouse
Keys to position their cursor. So if you turn Mouse Keys on in
the Universal Access menu under System Preferences, part of
your keyboard works to allow you to move the cursor around, and
pressing Fn+u will move your mouse one screen pixel to the
left, Fn+8 will move your mouse one pixel up, Fn+k moves one
pixel down, and Fn+o moves one pixel right. (I don't really
think about this -- the center key is the "i" key and I just
press Fn plus the key to the left, right, up, or down from the
"i" key to move the cursor in that direction).
As a bonus, when you have Mouse Keys turned on, Fn+i acts like a
hardware click --- just as though you had Numpad Commander turned
on and were pressing the "5" key on a numerica keypad.
So you might wonder whether you can get some of the other Numpad
Commander keys working if you turn Mouse Keys on and enable Numpad
Commander in the VoiceOver preferences. Apple advises you not to
do this in their VoiceOver guide for Leopard. What happens is
that you get the Numpad Commander functions for the partial
numeric keypad that Mouse Keys gives you, but then you can't use
your Command key. Bit of a bummer.
Just FYI. And the reason for using Mouse Keys at all here, is
that there are some instances where Flash doesn't disclose web
page elements to VoiceOver, but where, if you can get there with
your mouse, you can click and access content. As an example,
the sound samples for the (U.S.) Audible.com audiobooks are
embedded flash, but you can play the sound samples on the page
if you use Mouse Keys (or other means) to navigate to the
samples. See the Mac- cessibility quick tip about this at
lioncourt.com:
http://www.lioncourt.com/2008/07/19/play-samples-on-audiblecom-with-voiceover/
Cheers,
Esther
On Oct 25, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Randy Stegall wrote:
Ah, I knew there was a reason I did not care for those
keyboards. :)
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
If you've got a keyboard with a numpad or an older laptop with
the numpad overlay that is. The past few generations of laptops
as well as the new wireless keyboards lack any sort of numpad
support whatsoever.
On Oct 25, 2008, at 14:42, Randy Stegall wrote:
Using numpad commander numpad plus interacts and numpad
minus stops interacting. Thus there only 2 keys to
remember. :)
Hth,
Randy
On Oct 25, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Estelita wrote:
Yeah, if we remember how to do it.
As myself, I always look at my notes when I work on my Mac.
However: I admired the developers' idea by integrating voice
in the Mac, it gives us choice.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use
of Mac OS Xby theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
Speaking from a pure design standpoint as a point of fact,
the vo interface
is a brilliant design. if you have trouble with
control-option-shift-down/up arrow, you can most often use
tab and shift tab
and arrows to do many things, you can also use the item
chooser in many
windows. Interacting is brilliant because it provides a way
of interacting
with tthings instead of them getting in the way when you
don't need or want
them.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Estelita"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use
of Mac OS Xby
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.6 to Developers
I think not only the vo find feature needs refining, there
are more features
that need lots of twigging before we land to where we want.
Personally, I don't really like this interacting command.
We have to remember 4 keys to do this.
Since voiceover is just new, we just hope the developers
will come up with
the key combinations that are easy to remember.
