Hey Richie!
have them chew on the fact that they don't have to buy a screen
reader and
open office is free. that should slash some costs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Gardenhire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Mac OSX 10.5.6 and OSX Snow Leopard
And it is this argument that my state agency in Alaska, for example,
use to justify the lack of training for the Mac so many students
request. I don't know what the numbers are with respect to the number
of Mac users being gained by Lower 48 states, but the numbers are not
moving fast enough, in my opinion, here in my state. And with proposed
budget cuts, it is essential that Apple use that argument to commit
more resources toward further development of VoiceOver. Richie
Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska.
Original message:
What is now crucial to Apple's efforts regarding Voiceover is
improvements to their Iworks and similar pieces of software. I have
already e-mailed Apple Accessibility on a few occasions with the view
to impressing on Apple the importance of making Iworks fully
accessible to visually impaired users if they were to continue in
their ambition to becoming a leading source of adaptive technology
for
blind and visually impaired users. I pointed out to Apple in my
communications that the visually impaired users who are increasingly
aspire to entering a working environment will not be able to switch
to
Mac operating system unless they can be confident that Mac os can
support their word processing and office related applications. This
is
not a luxury option for Apple but an absolute must. Most colleges and
related schemes that enable visually impaired people to enter the
world of work are focused on Windows and the third party very
expensive adaptive technology related to Microsoft and their
satillite businesses like Freedom Scientific or Dollphin. I despair
of the fact that Apple seems to be so relaxed about it. I feel that
they are relaxed about it because they have not so far made Iworks
fully accessible to visually impaired user. Nor have they fully
realised how important computers are to blind people, and visually
impaired individuals' ambitions to live as complete a live as
possible. I think it is one of the gravest mistakes of Mac and
therefore I fear that they may lose the argument regarding which
system is being chosen by necessity by a visually impaired user. I
know of blind people who have been staunch supporters of Mac, having
to switch to Windows in order to be able to work. Apple is being very
lax about addressing this issue. Computers are fun but accessibility
to Itunes or an ipod is not going to be enough to persuade a blind
job
seeker to buy a Mac computer. I don't know what else I can do to
impress upon Apple the importance of the needs of a blind job seekr
or
student. Apple does not seem to take on board the fact that most job
seekrs and students receive state assistance to purchase adaptive
technology for which they are being assessed by a rather undiscerning
group of individuals. (I emphasise absolutely here the word
"assessed"
because this is the reality. Blind people are assessed regarding
their
computer and adaptive technology needs by other non-disabled people
who have no knowledge of Mac os or Voiceover.) These individuals are
going to be more likely to be pursuaded by Microsoft related
products, not by Apple unless Apple takes a positive stance on their
proprietary office relatedsoftware. Indeed, if I were advising a
blind
job seeker as to which operating system to go for, I would have to -
breaking my heart of course - say that they would be better off
buying
a Windows computer with Jaws. Isn't it just horrendously painful for
me who has spent well-nigh 2 thousand quid to support Apple and enjoy
their technology? Forgive a sarcastic note here. I therefore rest my
case and upon Apple's head be it. If they want to entertain only,
they
will find themselves in the minority market. They miss the very
serious point of the predicament a blind person faces, i.e. work or
not to work. Or rather, what is gonna make it easier for me as a
blind
person to work or not to work. I don't have to tell anyone on the
list
that to work means to have a choice because work produces money and
money in the world that we have created gives man a choice. Like it
or
not, this is how it is.
I don't know how these things are in the US but in Britain, all the
government agencies are focused entirely on Microsoft and its
satellites like Jaws and Hal. Apple is being very inprudent in not
listening to the feedback that I and others have provided it with.
The
Market place is what it is, i.e. cut-throat. I have done my best to
make them aware of these issues. More than this I cannot do. It
absolutely baffles me why it is that Iworks is still inaccessible to
blind users. In my experience of the work place, employers are mostly
interested in wheter a blind person can use Ms Office or not. What
can
a blind person say at the job interview? "I'm sorry, sir, I'm waiting
for Apple to get their act together". Smile bitterly and let's hope
for the future. Employers are not easily persuaded of a blind
applicant's ability to do the job at the best of times. Unless a job
seeker can confidently say, "I can do so and so using a computer,"
forget it. I 0am not talking rubbish. In 2001-2 I was one of the
researchers responsible for the writing and delivery of a report on
"Disability and Employment in Wales", and I spoke to many blind and
other disabled people regarding their experiences of the work
place. I
also did a very indepth research of the issues for the purpose of the
research. I am not likely to be unduly emotional on this subject. The
legitimate emotionalism belongs to all those who have struggled and
failed to secure employment of whom I have met plenty. My thoughts
are
still with them.
Just for the record, I'm not being bitter or unkind towards Apple.
I'm
just baffled by their inability to understand what the their
advantage
might be in the market. I'm also sad because Apple has made an
ethical
choice to include a blind user on a sort of equal footing in their
technology in that I can now go to PcWorld and use a mac computer on
the display stand. All I'm saying is that this is not going to be
enough for Apple to move into a dominant position in the job market
for visually impaired computer user/employee. Apple needs to
understand its business potential when it comes to Voiceover. Unless
they realise that blind people have ambitions not only to play with
computers and the internet but also absolutely rely for their
livelihoods and the quality of their lives on a computer, Apple
will
not move ahead of Microsoft.
I've said enough, and I hope I have said it in a non-confrontational
manner. I don't mean to cause offence. I mean to inspire thought and
reflection.
With best wishes
Simon
On 4 Nov 2008, at 14:04, Fonzie wrote:
Hi all, how are you doing?
Scott, this is true. Universal Access is being tested.
Accessibility at apple is thanks to that, along with other
developers they have testing the update.
Take care
Fonzie
On Nov 4, 2008, at 3:58 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
Oh I disagree with you, people are testing universal access across
the board.
On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:26 AM, Fonzie wrote:
Hi all, how goes it?
Mike, in my original post, I made a mention to OSX 10.5.6 and what
the current findings were. Currently, the mentioned findings do
not mention anything about VoiceOver.
As mentioned before, people are not usually testing VoiceOver, at
least not to my knowledge. A good example is in the last update
to Leopard. OSX 10.5.5. There was no mention in the release
notes to the speech dictionary being modified. OSX 10.5.3 had a
huge release for VoiceOver, and that seemed to be announced under
the findings when it was seeded.
Chris, remember, these are incramental updates to the current OS,
which is leopard, or OSX 10.5. Any improvements to the OS, both
benefits us and everyone else. If they make additions to
VoiceOver or modifications, we likely will not know until we
actually make the upgrade, or unless there is an actual
announcement for it.
As for the new OS you spoke of Chris, Snow Leopard is going to be
written in Coco. It is worth mentioning that VoiceOver is written
in Coco, meaning that changes done to the for Snow Leopard,
meaning, OSX 10.6, will benefit VoiceOver in the long run.
I do not see apple dropping support for VoiceOver, especially
since they are spending the time to provide accessibility to
everybody, both blind and or sighted, and who are also trying to
further their attempts at making so everyone can use the OS.
Take care.
Fonzie
On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Babcock, Michael Alex wrote:
what bought up the no voiceover topic? I might have missed
something
On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
Chris, please, Apple really would never shoot themselves in the
foot in this way. Hell I can't imagine any company spending that
much money on R&D to then just toss it in the trash. The other
person who responded is correct in it would be a P R nightmare
as well. VoiceOver is here to stay and I assure you that Apple
has no plans to stop development anytime soon.
On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Chris Gilland wrote:
I hope to God that Voiceover will be a part of the new OS. If
not, then I will unfortunately lose all respect for Apple.
Chris.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Fonzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Mac OSX 10.5.6 and OSX Snow Leopard
Hi all, ho are you doing?
While looking up the mentioned subject line, I thought I would
provide a link to some of hte seed notes for OSX 10.5.6.
Here it is. It is interesting, but I yet do not see anything
involving VoiceOver. To be fair, people are not usually
testing VoiceOver, and with hte exception of 10.5.3, it may
or may not be public at it's release. You should find them
interesting all the same.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mac-OS-X-10-5-6-9G21-Seed-Notes-Out-96638.shtml
On 10.6 Snow Leopard, I have found only the following.
Currently, from what I can see, the finder window is now
completely written in coco. The entire OS is supposed to be
written in coco, so that is always good to hear. we really
won't know it's entirety until it is actually released, but
little tid bits or nice here and there.
Take care all.
Fonzie
Scott Howell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Michael Babcock, owner of
http://gwhosting.net
Check out my blog at:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GwNetworks
twitter at: http://twitter.com/creepyblindy
and brightkite at: http://brightkite.com/people/creepyblindy
Scott Howell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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