On Monday, January 20, 2014 21:33:50 a l wrote: > I feel I must clarify my position. While I am for making the front room > more open and inviting I am not for doing these remodels now. We have 4 > short weeks until opening day and I know my availability to assist in > renovations will be limited at best due to school and health constraints. > Perhaps my ability to allot time for these renovations is skewed but I > think we need to organize a sort of renovation triage. That is things that > absolutely positively must be working and presentable come March 1, things > that would be nice to have, and things that can wait.
For reference, it took maybe a whole 5 man-hours of labor to tear down the wall, strip nails, and clean up. I estimate it'll take another 7 to finish the front room, including rewiring electrical switches and patching the ceiling. > > As far as getting a sense of what the community wants, yes this thread has > been active for a number of days but remember we have more than a few > members who either get the list in digest form or are just more comfortable > voicing their opinions in person at meetings or open hours. Hopefully we > can present the consideration at Tuesdays meeting. > > I would also like to again voice my concern about the amount of electrical > work members are doing at the space. Every circuit presents a very serious > liability issue. I know a contractor was scheduled to come by last week to > check over wiring and fix things and I would take it as a kindness if > people would stop undertaking electrical projects. I trust Andy, Craig, Devin, and everyone else to be able to watch all of this for safety. I never assume anyone else is checking things, so I make sure to personally inspect all work and verify it against code a few days later. Others are welcome to do the same. > > regards, > Andrew L > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Michael Griesacker > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > I am also against taking the wall down, for now, and feel scope creep is a > > valid point. I apologize for lack of lengthy supporting argument, but I > > only have two thumbs. > > On Jan 20, 2014 12:32 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > >> Omar, the decision is split. This is a discussion for the next meeting. I > >> am against tearing out the storage closet and the wall it resides in. > >> That > >> being said I am not against removing the "window" from the other, south > >> facing, wall. Stop trying to push decisions through by calling it Synhak > >> philosophy and brushing it under the rug. If we have disagreements we > >> need > >> to give everyone a chance to speak their piece. See you at the next > >> meeting, > >> > >> Devin Wolfe. > >> > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on > >> Android<http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>>> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> * From: * Omar Rassi <[email protected]>; > >> * To: * SYN/HAK discussion list <[email protected]>; > >> * Subject: * Re: [SH-Discuss] 48 Summit St front room discussion thread > >> * Sent: * Mon, Jan 20, 2014 4:40:18 PM > >> > >> Andrew L, I agree, we all love Synhak and want the best for our new > >> > >> space but we must refrain from passionate sarcasm and profanity during > >> discussion, its not acceptable during meetings nor should it be during > >> discussion. From this thread, there is a very strong and compelling > >> argument from more than one person for bringing down the walls in the > >> front > >> room, turning one wall into a welcome bar. > >> > >> Currently, having a walled off restricted area is not in keeping with > >> Synhak's philosophy. The admin computer I had set up before plus our > >> document github should be more than sufficient sufficient to store and > >> maintain any documentation or office related work that needs done by an > >> officer in the event an officer doesn't have access to their own computer > >> to do it with. When Synhak grows large enough to warrant a dedicated > >> office > >> space, then we'll revisit the subject. > >> > >> My mind's eye is seeing the area becoming a place to make it easy to find > >> to more information on Synhak, access to membership and liability forms, > >> showcase sample projects (like the hard drive speakers Dialbot, etc). > >> like > >> the the kiosk that was at 21 W. North but version 2.0. essentially an > >> excellent first sight for new visitors and guests of Synhak. > >> > >> For now, lets get the area ready for that by taking down the wall, making > >> the bar height section of the other wall, and continue the renovations > >> and > >> repair that must take place anyway regardless of what happens to the > >> wall. > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 8:30 AM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Firstly I realize people are passionate about the space and making it > >>> better but if we could leave dismissive, explicit, and excessively > >>> sarcastic commentary out of the discussion that would be excellent to > >>> everyone. > >>> > >>> Secondly the arguments against tearing down the office we already have > >>> to build a slightly different one in the exact same place are more than > >>> just "There are other things in need of doing!". Secondly as you pointed > >>> out tearing down walls is not expensive. Remodeling the now larger space > >>> so > >>> it doesn't look like people ran drunkenly around with sawz-alls and > >>> crowbars is the expensive part. We have to get: ceiling tile, drywall, > >>> paint, relocate more outlets(new wiring, boxes, &c), and floor vents for > >>> formerly wall vents. > >>> We are losing money and working on a finite time table. Having a > >>> prioritized list actually does mean we should focus the vast majority of > >>> our limited time and money on them. They are the projects that need to > >>> get > >>> done in order for SynHak to function come opening day. Getting the main > >>> workspace up and running should be everyone's main effort. After that's > >>> done we can and should focus on the 'nice to have' list. > >>> > >>> regards, > >>> Andrew L > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Buczko <[email protected] > >>> > >>> > wrote: > >>>> I shouldn't have to explain this... > >>>> > >>>> Every time you start a project you run into expenses. Yes we can > >>>> recycle what materials we have but there's always something else needed > >>>> to > >>>> get the project done. > >>>> > >>>> Personally, I'm done with this, so & so already started tearing out the > >>>> wall, so fuck it! lets just gut the whole fucking place! > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]>wrote: > >>>>> Andy, I also emailed the start of this thread to [email protected], > >>>>> discuss is what responded first. > >>>>> > >>>>> A few questions for you Andy: > >>>>> >It's a nice little room, we can use for what ever we want, if you > >>>>> > >>>>> take it away then all we'll have is big empty space. > >>>>> > >>>>> It won't be empty, it would be built into the welcome bar. The whole > >>>>> reason we moved to 48 Summit is because we need more space, are you > >>>>> saying > >>>>> we now have too much? How does keeping the walls make it less empty? > >>>>> > >>>>> >we don't have the money to build new walls. > >>>>> > >>>>> Why would we need to build new walls there? Why would a Synhak office > >>>>> absolutely require walls? If a separate office is needed, a walled > >>>>> off area right by the front door is not a good place to have one, so a > >>>>> room > >>>>> to our specifications would need to be constructed anyway but in a > >>>>> different place at the space as a long term project > >>>>> > >>>>> >heck we still have to fix the ceiling first. Plus if you take out the > >>>>> > >>>>> wall you then have to fix the ceiling, who wants to look at a bunch of > >>>>> gaps? > >>>>> > >>>>> That's a good point. Was this part of the ceiling not included in our > >>>>> estimates regarding roof repair? What is required to fix it, how much > >>>>> wood? > >>>>> how much in ceiling tile? Can we get a hardware store to donate the > >>>>> materials for a donation tax receipt? > >>>>> > >>>>> Andrew, you're right remodeling is expensive, we still have plenty of > >>>>> wood at our disposal and we've reclaimed even more from both 21 W > >>>>> North and > >>>>> 48 Summit. what do we think are the expenses associated with turning > >>>>> the > >>>>> room into a welcome area/paperwork repository? And what materials and > >>>>> expertise do we already have on hand to make it happen? I can think of > >>>>> floor tileand ceiling repair though I have very little experience with > >>>>> carpentry and building repair so I couldn't begin to guess how much > >>>>> work > >>>>> and material would be needed. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for sharing. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:24 AM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> I thunk it would be nice if that area were a reception type desk > >>>>>> welcome bar type structure that housed paper work. As far as walks > >>>>>> are > >>>>>> concerned i think half height walls would be nice as this allows > >>>>>> people to > >>>>>> see the whole space but still restricts access to documents. locked > >>>>>> drawers > >>>>>> they are only open during filing keeps privacy concerns satisfied but > >>>>>> still > >>>>>> allows for any member to get blank forms for visitors. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That said remodeling is expensive, we have other more pressing > >>>>>> expenses like getting up to code properly installed outlets in the > >>>>>> main > >>>>>> shop so people can hack. I think we need to prioritize our spending > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> realize we can't do it all at the same time. For me removing existing > >>>>>> infrastructure only to modify it slightly is a frivolous expense we > >>>>>> can't > >>>>>> shots right now. We should save for and do it this year, in the next > >>>>>> six > >>>>>> months money permitting. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Also every project we start now is one more we have to finish by > >>>>>> opening day. And we already have quite a list. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> regards, > >>>>>> Andrew L > >>>>>> On Jan 19, 2014 1:12 AM, "Torrie Fischer" <[email protected]> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Sunday, January 19, 2014 00:33:16 Omar Rassi wrote: > >>>>>>> > >1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall with > >>>>>>> > >the > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > closet/shelves? > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > Torrie's argument is compelling, though I leaned towards keeping > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> the room > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > as is, I am now indifferent to walls up or down. > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > >2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it fulfill? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Crafts? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? Computer lab? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Lounge? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Etc etc. > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > I had envisioned a place where Synhak Inc. office could go. A > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> place where > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > the office of secretary, treasurer, and the champions, could work > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> on the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > not so exciting parts of running a non-profit with minimal > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> distraction from > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > hackers hacking. It would be a room to keep important paper > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> records that we > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > are required to have on file in a controlled place to prevent > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> tampering > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > (we've never had an issue with this in the past, its just a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> perspective of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > assurance from a 3rd party perspective i.e. How can we guarantee > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > records are true if anyone can walk in and change the paper > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> documents when > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > a member's back is turned?) > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > >3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, if > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> it does > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > come down, will that detract from anyone's desires for how to use > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> the space? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > A bolted and locked file cabinet and appropriate file permissions > >>>>>>> > (read-write access for officers and champions, read-only access > >>>>>>> > for > >>>>>>> > everyone else) placed on a workstation designated for office use > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> can > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > accomplish the same records assurance mentioned above while > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> keeping the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > digital copies open and transparent. So perhaps a walled off area > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> may not > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > be necessary as I previously thought. Objectively thinking about > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> it, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > creating a welcome area out of that room would not lessen my > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> desire to use > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > the space and could provide a wow factor for visitors and guests, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I can > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > think of alternatives to achieve my desired goals for a Synhak > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Inc. Office. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thank you. It is important that we all try to be as pragmatic as > >>>>>>> possible when > >>>>>>> considering how to best allocate the finite volume we have available > >>>>>>> to us. I > >>>>>>> feel the quantity of shared space should be maximized as it gives > >>>>>>> others the > >>>>>>> broadest canvas that this building can provide, until it becomes > >>>>>>> more > >>>>>>> beneficial to the community to do otherwise. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Torrie Fischer > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > <[email protected]>wrote: > >>>>>>> > > On Saturday, January 18, 2014 22:26:49 Omar Rassi wrote: > >>>>>>> > > > There may be some miscommunication/misunderstanding about the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> front room > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > at > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > 48 Summit St. So lets talk about what to do with that room. > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > The original plan was to remove all the walls, shelving and > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> cabinetry to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > give us a large open area to do what we wish with and turn one > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of its > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > walls > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > into a welcome bar like at the old space. However, it appears > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> that some > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > members want to keep the small office-ish type room for > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> various reasons > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > (each person in favor of keeping the room has a different > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> idea). So lets > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > discuss! > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > Key points of discussion: > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > 1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall with > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > closet/shelves? > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > I would prefer to remove the closet side wall of that room and > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> create a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > new > >>>>>>> > > welcome bar from the other wall of the room by cutting it to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> only a few > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > feet > >>>>>>> > > tall. This would create a very open and inviting physical space. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > 2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> fulfill? Crafts? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? Computer > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> lab? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > Lounge? > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > Etc etc. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > If someone is intending on turning it into some form of member > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> storage, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > SYNHAK, Inc office, or server closet, I think it would be wise > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> to remember > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > that we have a massive basement that has not yet been spoken for > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> in any > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > significant capacity and will likely see the smallest fraction > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> of actual > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > foot > >>>>>>> > > traffic in proportion to the floor space. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > Additionally, why would you want something so obviously meant to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> be hidden > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > and > >>>>>>> > > out of the way *immediately next to the front door*? Thats just > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> not good > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > feng > >>>>>>> > > shui. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > 3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> if it does > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > come down, will that detract from anyone's desires for how to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> use the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > space? > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > I feel it creates a walled off area of a space that is otherwise > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> open to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > everyone. It implies that there is some private part of the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> space that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > you're > >>>>>>> > > not allowed to visit, and it is immediately at the front > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> entrance. The > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > building already has enough cubicle-dungeon-like attributes > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> without > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > functional > >>>>>>> > > windows up front. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > For reference please see the floorplan of 48 Summit St. at > >>>>>>> > > > http://calculais.com/syn/syncalled.pdf and Synhak's google > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> plus page at > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > https://plus.google.com/104182820750454997283 for pictures of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 48 Summit > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > St > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > pre-renovation. The bottom of the floorplan page is where the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> entrance > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > is > >>>>>>> > > > (Front door is angled) the room in question is directly to the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> right of > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > that, the specific wall to come down is to the right of the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> room's door > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > with the wall closest to the front door being turned into a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> welcome bar > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > as > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > with the old space. Remember that this is simply discussion > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> where > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > everyone > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > can voice their concerns. Ultimately this should be decided no > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> later > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > than > >>>>>>> > > > Tuesday's meeting by the membership as per our self-governance > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> process ( > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > > https://synhak.org/wiki/Governance) so we can get a move on > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> with this > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > > area > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > and once decided put it behind us. > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list > >>>>>>> > > [email protected] > >>>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
