My concern is scope creep.
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm not trying brush anything under a rug, its all open right here. And > you're right about giving everyone a chance to say something, so far this > thread has been up for two days and only a few individuals have been > discussing the issue, with only one against taking down the wall. When I > started the thread I myself wanted to keep the room, but have since changed > my mind after reading what Andrew L and Torrie said about it. So far only > one person in the thread still wants to keep it and has not yet provided a > response to the key points outlined or answered the questions on his > argument. > > If you have something to say on the subject for or against taking down the > walls of that room, please do. Please do not limit yourself to one evening > of short discussion on an important topic, especially when a wide range of > other information must also be discussed during the same meeting. > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Well said Devin. >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:29 PM, [email protected] < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Omar, the decision is split. This is a discussion for the next meeting. >>> I am against tearing out the storage closet and the wall it resides in. >>> That being said I am not against removing the "window" from the other, >>> south facing, wall. Stop trying to push decisions through by calling it >>> Synhak philosophy and brushing it under the rug. If we have disagreements >>> we need to give everyone a chance to speak their piece. See you at the next >>> meeting, >>> >>> Devin Wolfe. >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on >>> Android<http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> * From: * Omar Rassi <[email protected]>; >>> * To: * SYN/HAK discussion list <[email protected]>; >>> * Subject: * Re: [SH-Discuss] 48 Summit St front room discussion thread >>> * Sent: * Mon, Jan 20, 2014 4:40:18 PM >>> >>> Andrew L, I agree, we all love Synhak and want the best for our new >>> space but we must refrain from passionate sarcasm and profanity during >>> discussion, its not acceptable during meetings nor should it be during >>> discussion. From this thread, there is a very strong and compelling >>> argument from more than one person for bringing down the walls in the front >>> room, turning one wall into a welcome bar. >>> >>> Currently, having a walled off restricted area is not in keeping with >>> Synhak's philosophy. The admin computer I had set up before plus our >>> document github should be more than sufficient sufficient to store and >>> maintain any documentation or office related work that needs done by an >>> officer in the event an officer doesn't have access to their own computer >>> to do it with. When Synhak grows large enough to warrant a dedicated office >>> space, then we'll revisit the subject. >>> >>> My mind's eye is seeing the area becoming a place to make it easy to >>> find to more information on Synhak, access to membership and liability >>> forms, showcase sample projects (like the hard drive speakers Dialbot, >>> etc). like the the kiosk that was at 21 W. North but version 2.0. >>> essentially an excellent first sight for new visitors and guests of Synhak. >>> >>> For now, lets get the area ready for that by taking down the wall, >>> making the bar height section of the other wall, and continue the >>> renovations and repair that must take place anyway regardless of what >>> happens to the wall. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 8:30 AM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Firstly I realize people are passionate about the space and making it >>>> better but if we could leave dismissive, explicit, and excessively >>>> sarcastic commentary out of the discussion that would be excellent to >>>> everyone. >>>> >>>> Secondly the arguments against tearing down the office we already have >>>> to build a slightly different one in the exact same place are more than >>>> just "There are other things in need of doing!". Secondly as you pointed >>>> out tearing down walls is not expensive. Remodeling the now larger space so >>>> it doesn't look like people ran drunkenly around with sawz-alls and >>>> crowbars is the expensive part. We have to get: ceiling tile, drywall, >>>> paint, relocate more outlets(new wiring, boxes, &c), and floor vents for >>>> formerly wall vents. >>>> We are losing money and working on a finite time table. Having a >>>> prioritized list actually does mean we should focus the vast majority of >>>> our limited time and money on them. They are the projects that need to get >>>> done in order for SynHak to function come opening day. Getting the main >>>> workspace up and running should be everyone's main effort. After that's >>>> done we can and should focus on the 'nice to have' list. >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Andrew L >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Buczko < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I shouldn't have to explain this... >>>>> >>>>> Every time you start a project you run into expenses. Yes we can >>>>> recycle what materials we have but there's always something else needed to >>>>> get the project done. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I'm done with this, so & so already started tearing out >>>>> the wall, so fuck it! lets just gut the whole fucking place! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Andy, I also emailed the start of this thread to [email protected], >>>>>> discuss is what responded first. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few questions for you Andy: >>>>>> >It's a nice little room, we can use for what ever we want, if you >>>>>> take it away then all we'll have is big empty space. >>>>>> >>>>>> It won't be empty, it would be built into the welcome bar. The whole >>>>>> reason we moved to 48 Summit is because we need more space, are you >>>>>> saying >>>>>> we now have too much? How does keeping the walls make it less empty? >>>>>> >>>>>> >we don't have the money to build new walls. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why would we need to build new walls there? Why would a Synhak >>>>>> office absolutely require walls? If a separate office is needed, a >>>>>> walled off area right by the front door is not a good place to have one, >>>>>> so >>>>>> a room to our specifications would need to be constructed anyway but in a >>>>>> different place at the space as a long term project >>>>>> >>>>>> >heck we still have to fix the ceiling first. Plus if you take out >>>>>> the wall you then have to fix the ceiling, who wants to look at a bunch >>>>>> of >>>>>> gaps? >>>>>> >>>>>> That's a good point. Was this part of the ceiling not included in our >>>>>> estimates regarding roof repair? What is required to fix it, how much >>>>>> wood? >>>>>> how much in ceiling tile? Can we get a hardware store to donate the >>>>>> materials for a donation tax receipt? >>>>>> >>>>>> Andrew, you're right remodeling is expensive, we still have plenty of >>>>>> wood at our disposal and we've reclaimed even more from both 21 W North >>>>>> and >>>>>> 48 Summit. what do we think are the expenses associated with turning the >>>>>> room into a welcome area/paperwork repository? And what materials and >>>>>> expertise do we already have on hand to make it happen? I can think of >>>>>> floor tileand ceiling repair though I have very little experience with >>>>>> carpentry and building repair so I couldn't begin to guess how much work >>>>>> and material would be needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for sharing. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:24 AM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I thunk it would be nice if that area were a reception type desk >>>>>>> welcome bar type structure that housed paper work. As far as walks are >>>>>>> concerned i think half height walls would be nice as this allows people >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> see the whole space but still restricts access to documents. locked >>>>>>> drawers >>>>>>> they are only open during filing keeps privacy concerns satisfied but >>>>>>> still >>>>>>> allows for any member to get blank forms for visitors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That said remodeling is expensive, we have other more pressing >>>>>>> expenses like getting up to code properly installed outlets in the main >>>>>>> shop so people can hack. I think we need to prioritize our spending and >>>>>>> realize we can't do it all at the same time. For me removing existing >>>>>>> infrastructure only to modify it slightly is a frivolous expense we >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> shots right now. We should save for and do it this year, in the next six >>>>>>> months money permitting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also every project we start now is one more we have to finish by >>>>>>> opening day. And we already have quite a list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> Andrew L >>>>>>> On Jan 19, 2014 1:12 AM, "Torrie Fischer" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 19, 2014 00:33:16 Omar Rassi wrote: >>>>>>>> > >1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall with >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > closet/shelves? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Torrie's argument is compelling, though I leaned towards keeping >>>>>>>> the room >>>>>>>> > as is, I am now indifferent to walls up or down. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it fulfill? >>>>>>>> Crafts? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? Computer >>>>>>>> lab? Lounge? >>>>>>>> > Etc etc. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I had envisioned a place where Synhak Inc. office could go. A >>>>>>>> place where >>>>>>>> > the office of secretary, treasurer, and the champions, could work >>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>> > not so exciting parts of running a non-profit with minimal >>>>>>>> distraction from >>>>>>>> > hackers hacking. It would be a room to keep important paper >>>>>>>> records that we >>>>>>>> > are required to have on file in a controlled place to prevent >>>>>>>> tampering >>>>>>>> > (we've never had an issue with this in the past, its just a >>>>>>>> perspective of >>>>>>>> > assurance from a 3rd party perspective i.e. How can we guarantee >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> > records are true if anyone can walk in and change the paper >>>>>>>> documents when >>>>>>>> > a member's back is turned?) >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, if >>>>>>>> it does >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > come down, will that detract from anyone's desires for how to use >>>>>>>> the space? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > A bolted and locked file cabinet and appropriate file permissions >>>>>>>> > (read-write access for officers and champions, read-only access >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> > everyone else) placed on a workstation designated for office use >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> > accomplish the same records assurance mentioned above while >>>>>>>> keeping the >>>>>>>> > digital copies open and transparent. So perhaps a walled off area >>>>>>>> may not >>>>>>>> > be necessary as I previously thought. Objectively thinking about >>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>> > creating a welcome area out of that room would not lessen my >>>>>>>> desire to use >>>>>>>> > the space and could provide a wow factor for visitors and guests, >>>>>>>> I can >>>>>>>> > think of alternatives to achieve my desired goals for a Synhak >>>>>>>> Inc. Office. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you. It is important that we all try to be as pragmatic as >>>>>>>> possible when >>>>>>>> considering how to best allocate the finite volume we have >>>>>>>> available to us. I >>>>>>>> feel the quantity of shared space should be maximized as it gives >>>>>>>> others the >>>>>>>> broadest canvas that this building can provide, until it becomes >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> beneficial to the community to do otherwise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Torrie Fischer >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> > > On Saturday, January 18, 2014 22:26:49 Omar Rassi wrote: >>>>>>>> > > > There may be some miscommunication/misunderstanding about the >>>>>>>> front room >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > at >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > 48 Summit St. So lets talk about what to do with that room. >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > The original plan was to remove all the walls, shelving and >>>>>>>> cabinetry to >>>>>>>> > > > give us a large open area to do what we wish with and turn >>>>>>>> one of its >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > walls >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > into a welcome bar like at the old space. However, it appears >>>>>>>> that some >>>>>>>> > > > members want to keep the small office-ish type room for >>>>>>>> various reasons >>>>>>>> > > > (each person in favor of keeping the room has a different >>>>>>>> idea). So lets >>>>>>>> > > > discuss! >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > Key points of discussion: >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > 1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall >>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>> > > > closet/shelves? >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > I would prefer to remove the closet side wall of that room and >>>>>>>> create a >>>>>>>> > > new >>>>>>>> > > welcome bar from the other wall of the room by cutting it to >>>>>>>> only a few >>>>>>>> > > feet >>>>>>>> > > tall. This would create a very open and inviting physical space. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > 2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it >>>>>>>> fulfill? Crafts? >>>>>>>> > > > Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? Computer >>>>>>>> lab? >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > Lounge? >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > Etc etc. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > If someone is intending on turning it into some form of member >>>>>>>> storage, >>>>>>>> > > SYNHAK, Inc office, or server closet, I think it would be wise >>>>>>>> to remember >>>>>>>> > > that we have a massive basement that has not yet been spoken >>>>>>>> for in any >>>>>>>> > > significant capacity and will likely see the smallest fraction >>>>>>>> of actual >>>>>>>> > > foot >>>>>>>> > > traffic in proportion to the floor space. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > Additionally, why would you want something so obviously meant >>>>>>>> to be hidden >>>>>>>> > > and >>>>>>>> > > out of the way *immediately next to the front door*? Thats just >>>>>>>> not good >>>>>>>> > > feng >>>>>>>> > > shui. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > 3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, >>>>>>>> if it does >>>>>>>> > > > come down, will that detract from anyone's desires for how to >>>>>>>> use the >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > space? >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > I feel it creates a walled off area of a space that is >>>>>>>> otherwise open to >>>>>>>> > > everyone. It implies that there is some private part of the >>>>>>>> space that >>>>>>>> > > you're >>>>>>>> > > not allowed to visit, and it is immediately at the front >>>>>>>> entrance. The >>>>>>>> > > building already has enough cubicle-dungeon-like attributes >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> > > functional >>>>>>>> > > windows up front. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > For reference please see the floorplan of 48 Summit St. at >>>>>>>> > > > http://calculais.com/syn/syncalled.pdf and Synhak's google >>>>>>>> plus page at >>>>>>>> > > > https://plus.google.com/104182820750454997283 for pictures >>>>>>>> of 48 Summit >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > St >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > pre-renovation. The bottom of the floorplan page is where the >>>>>>>> entrance >>>>>>>> > > > is >>>>>>>> > > > (Front door is angled) the room in question is directly to >>>>>>>> the right of >>>>>>>> > > > that, the specific wall to come down is to the right of the >>>>>>>> room's door >>>>>>>> > > > with the wall closest to the front door being turned into a >>>>>>>> welcome bar >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > as >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > with the old space. Remember that this is simply discussion >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > everyone >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > can voice their concerns. Ultimately this should be decided >>>>>>>> no later >>>>>>>> > > > than >>>>>>>> > > > Tuesday's meeting by the membership as per our >>>>>>>> self-governance process ( >>>>>>>> > > > https://synhak.org/wiki/Governance) so we can get a move on >>>>>>>> with this >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > area >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > > and once decided put it behind us. >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> > > [email protected] >>>>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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