That's why I started the discussion by outlining key points of discussion. Let please keep on topic in this thread so I'll reiterate the points of discussion:
1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall with the closet/shelves? 2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it fulfill? Crafts? Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? Computer lab? Lounge? Etc etc. 3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, if it[the wall] does come down[or stay up], will that detract from anyone's desires for how to use the space? On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> wrote: > My concern is scope creep. > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm not trying brush anything under a rug, its all open right here. And >> you're right about giving everyone a chance to say something, so far this >> thread has been up for two days and only a few individuals have been >> discussing the issue, with only one against taking down the wall. When I >> started the thread I myself wanted to keep the room, but have since changed >> my mind after reading what Andrew L and Torrie said about it. So far only >> one person in the thread still wants to keep it and has not yet provided a >> response to the key points outlined or answered the questions on his >> argument. >> >> If you have something to say on the subject for or against taking down >> the walls of that room, please do. Please do not limit yourself to one >> evening of short discussion on an important topic, especially when a wide >> range of other information must also be discussed during the same meeting. >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Well said Devin. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:29 PM, [email protected] < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Omar, the decision is split. This is a discussion for the next meeting. >>>> I am against tearing out the storage closet and the wall it resides in. >>>> That being said I am not against removing the "window" from the other, >>>> south facing, wall. Stop trying to push decisions through by calling it >>>> Synhak philosophy and brushing it under the rug. If we have disagreements >>>> we need to give everyone a chance to speak their piece. See you at the next >>>> meeting, >>>> >>>> Devin Wolfe. >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on >>>> Android<http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> * From: * Omar Rassi <[email protected]>; >>>> * To: * SYN/HAK discussion list <[email protected]>; >>>> * Subject: * Re: [SH-Discuss] 48 Summit St front room discussion >>>> thread >>>> * Sent: * Mon, Jan 20, 2014 4:40:18 PM >>>> >>>> Andrew L, I agree, we all love Synhak and want the best for our new >>>> space but we must refrain from passionate sarcasm and profanity during >>>> discussion, its not acceptable during meetings nor should it be during >>>> discussion. From this thread, there is a very strong and compelling >>>> argument from more than one person for bringing down the walls in the front >>>> room, turning one wall into a welcome bar. >>>> >>>> Currently, having a walled off restricted area is not in keeping with >>>> Synhak's philosophy. The admin computer I had set up before plus our >>>> document github should be more than sufficient sufficient to store and >>>> maintain any documentation or office related work that needs done by an >>>> officer in the event an officer doesn't have access to their own computer >>>> to do it with. When Synhak grows large enough to warrant a dedicated office >>>> space, then we'll revisit the subject. >>>> >>>> My mind's eye is seeing the area becoming a place to make it easy to >>>> find to more information on Synhak, access to membership and liability >>>> forms, showcase sample projects (like the hard drive speakers Dialbot, >>>> etc). like the the kiosk that was at 21 W. North but version 2.0. >>>> essentially an excellent first sight for new visitors and guests of Synhak. >>>> >>>> For now, lets get the area ready for that by taking down the wall, >>>> making the bar height section of the other wall, and continue the >>>> renovations and repair that must take place anyway regardless of what >>>> happens to the wall. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 8:30 AM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Firstly I realize people are passionate about the space and making it >>>>> better but if we could leave dismissive, explicit, and excessively >>>>> sarcastic commentary out of the discussion that would be excellent to >>>>> everyone. >>>>> >>>>> Secondly the arguments against tearing down the office we already have >>>>> to build a slightly different one in the exact same place are more than >>>>> just "There are other things in need of doing!". Secondly as you pointed >>>>> out tearing down walls is not expensive. Remodeling the now larger space >>>>> so >>>>> it doesn't look like people ran drunkenly around with sawz-alls and >>>>> crowbars is the expensive part. We have to get: ceiling tile, drywall, >>>>> paint, relocate more outlets(new wiring, boxes, &c), and floor vents for >>>>> formerly wall vents. >>>>> We are losing money and working on a finite time table. Having a >>>>> prioritized list actually does mean we should focus the vast majority of >>>>> our limited time and money on them. They are the projects that need to get >>>>> done in order for SynHak to function come opening day. Getting the main >>>>> workspace up and running should be everyone's main effort. After that's >>>>> done we can and should focus on the 'nice to have' list. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> Andrew L >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Buczko < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I shouldn't have to explain this... >>>>>> >>>>>> Every time you start a project you run into expenses. Yes we can >>>>>> recycle what materials we have but there's always something else needed >>>>>> to >>>>>> get the project done. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I'm done with this, so & so already started tearing out >>>>>> the wall, so fuck it! lets just gut the whole fucking place! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Omar Rassi >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Andy, I also emailed the start of this thread to [email protected], >>>>>>> discuss is what responded first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A few questions for you Andy: >>>>>>> >It's a nice little room, we can use for what ever we want, if you >>>>>>> take it away then all we'll have is big empty space. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It won't be empty, it would be built into the welcome bar. The whole >>>>>>> reason we moved to 48 Summit is because we need more space, are you >>>>>>> saying >>>>>>> we now have too much? How does keeping the walls make it less empty? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >we don't have the money to build new walls. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why would we need to build new walls there? Why would a Synhak >>>>>>> office absolutely require walls? If a separate office is needed, a >>>>>>> walled off area right by the front door is not a good place to have >>>>>>> one, so >>>>>>> a room to our specifications would need to be constructed anyway but in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> different place at the space as a long term project >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >heck we still have to fix the ceiling first. Plus if you take out >>>>>>> the wall you then have to fix the ceiling, who wants to look at a bunch >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> gaps? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's a good point. Was this part of the ceiling not included in >>>>>>> our estimates regarding roof repair? What is required to fix it, how >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> wood? how much in ceiling tile? Can we get a hardware store to donate >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> materials for a donation tax receipt? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Andrew, you're right remodeling is expensive, we still have plenty >>>>>>> of wood at our disposal and we've reclaimed even more from both 21 W >>>>>>> North >>>>>>> and 48 Summit. what do we think are the expenses associated with turning >>>>>>> the room into a welcome area/paperwork repository? And what materials >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> expertise do we already have on hand to make it happen? I can think of >>>>>>> floor tileand ceiling repair though I have very little experience with >>>>>>> carpentry and building repair so I couldn't begin to guess how much work >>>>>>> and material would be needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for sharing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:24 AM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I thunk it would be nice if that area were a reception type desk >>>>>>>> welcome bar type structure that housed paper work. As far as walks are >>>>>>>> concerned i think half height walls would be nice as this allows >>>>>>>> people to >>>>>>>> see the whole space but still restricts access to documents. locked >>>>>>>> drawers >>>>>>>> they are only open during filing keeps privacy concerns satisfied but >>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>> allows for any member to get blank forms for visitors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That said remodeling is expensive, we have other more pressing >>>>>>>> expenses like getting up to code properly installed outlets in the main >>>>>>>> shop so people can hack. I think we need to prioritize our spending and >>>>>>>> realize we can't do it all at the same time. For me removing existing >>>>>>>> infrastructure only to modify it slightly is a frivolous expense we >>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>> shots right now. We should save for and do it this year, in the next >>>>>>>> six >>>>>>>> months money permitting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also every project we start now is one more we have to finish by >>>>>>>> opening day. And we already have quite a list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>> Andrew L >>>>>>>> On Jan 19, 2014 1:12 AM, "Torrie Fischer" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 19, 2014 00:33:16 Omar Rassi wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall with >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > closet/shelves? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Torrie's argument is compelling, though I leaned towards keeping >>>>>>>>> the room >>>>>>>>> > as is, I am now indifferent to walls up or down. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it >>>>>>>>> fulfill? Crafts? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? Computer >>>>>>>>> lab? Lounge? >>>>>>>>> > Etc etc. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > I had envisioned a place where Synhak Inc. office could go. A >>>>>>>>> place where >>>>>>>>> > the office of secretary, treasurer, and the champions, could >>>>>>>>> work on the >>>>>>>>> > not so exciting parts of running a non-profit with minimal >>>>>>>>> distraction from >>>>>>>>> > hackers hacking. It would be a room to keep important paper >>>>>>>>> records that we >>>>>>>>> > are required to have on file in a controlled place to prevent >>>>>>>>> tampering >>>>>>>>> > (we've never had an issue with this in the past, its just a >>>>>>>>> perspective of >>>>>>>>> > assurance from a 3rd party perspective i.e. How can we guarantee >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> > records are true if anyone can walk in and change the paper >>>>>>>>> documents when >>>>>>>>> > a member's back is turned?) >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, if >>>>>>>>> it does >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > come down, will that detract from anyone's desires for how to >>>>>>>>> use the space? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > A bolted and locked file cabinet and appropriate file permissions >>>>>>>>> > (read-write access for officers and champions, read-only access >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> > everyone else) placed on a workstation designated for office use >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> > accomplish the same records assurance mentioned above while >>>>>>>>> keeping the >>>>>>>>> > digital copies open and transparent. So perhaps a walled off >>>>>>>>> area may not >>>>>>>>> > be necessary as I previously thought. Objectively thinking about >>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>> > creating a welcome area out of that room would not lessen my >>>>>>>>> desire to use >>>>>>>>> > the space and could provide a wow factor for visitors and >>>>>>>>> guests, I can >>>>>>>>> > think of alternatives to achieve my desired goals for a Synhak >>>>>>>>> Inc. Office. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you. It is important that we all try to be as pragmatic as >>>>>>>>> possible when >>>>>>>>> considering how to best allocate the finite volume we have >>>>>>>>> available to us. I >>>>>>>>> feel the quantity of shared space should be maximized as it gives >>>>>>>>> others the >>>>>>>>> broadest canvas that this building can provide, until it becomes >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> beneficial to the community to do otherwise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Torrie Fischer >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > On Saturday, January 18, 2014 22:26:49 Omar Rassi wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > > There may be some miscommunication/misunderstanding about >>>>>>>>> the front room >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > at >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > 48 Summit St. So lets talk about what to do with that room. >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > The original plan was to remove all the walls, shelving and >>>>>>>>> cabinetry to >>>>>>>>> > > > give us a large open area to do what we wish with and turn >>>>>>>>> one of its >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > walls >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > into a welcome bar like at the old space. However, it >>>>>>>>> appears that some >>>>>>>>> > > > members want to keep the small office-ish type room for >>>>>>>>> various reasons >>>>>>>>> > > > (each person in favor of keeping the room has a different >>>>>>>>> idea). So lets >>>>>>>>> > > > discuss! >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Key points of discussion: >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > 1) Are we keeping the room or are we taking down the wall >>>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>>> > > > closet/shelves? >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > I would prefer to remove the closet side wall of that room and >>>>>>>>> create a >>>>>>>>> > > new >>>>>>>>> > > welcome bar from the other wall of the room by cutting it to >>>>>>>>> only a few >>>>>>>>> > > feet >>>>>>>>> > > tall. This would create a very open and inviting physical >>>>>>>>> space. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > 2) If we are keeping the room, for what purpose will it >>>>>>>>> fulfill? Crafts? >>>>>>>>> > > > Admin office/recordkeeping? servers? Member storage? >>>>>>>>> Computer lab? >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Lounge? >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Etc etc. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > If someone is intending on turning it into some form of member >>>>>>>>> storage, >>>>>>>>> > > SYNHAK, Inc office, or server closet, I think it would be wise >>>>>>>>> to remember >>>>>>>>> > > that we have a massive basement that has not yet been spoken >>>>>>>>> for in any >>>>>>>>> > > significant capacity and will likely see the smallest fraction >>>>>>>>> of actual >>>>>>>>> > > foot >>>>>>>>> > > traffic in proportion to the floor space. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Additionally, why would you want something so obviously meant >>>>>>>>> to be hidden >>>>>>>>> > > and >>>>>>>>> > > out of the way *immediately next to the front door*? Thats >>>>>>>>> just not good >>>>>>>>> > > feng >>>>>>>>> > > shui. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > 3) Do we even need walls for those purposes? In other words, >>>>>>>>> if it does >>>>>>>>> > > > come down, will that detract from anyone's desires for how >>>>>>>>> to use the >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > space? >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > I feel it creates a walled off area of a space that is >>>>>>>>> otherwise open to >>>>>>>>> > > everyone. It implies that there is some private part of the >>>>>>>>> space that >>>>>>>>> > > you're >>>>>>>>> > > not allowed to visit, and it is immediately at the front >>>>>>>>> entrance. The >>>>>>>>> > > building already has enough cubicle-dungeon-like attributes >>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> > > functional >>>>>>>>> > > windows up front. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > For reference please see the floorplan of 48 Summit St. at >>>>>>>>> > > > http://calculais.com/syn/syncalled.pdf and Synhak's google >>>>>>>>> plus page at >>>>>>>>> > > > https://plus.google.com/104182820750454997283 for pictures >>>>>>>>> of 48 Summit >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > St >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > pre-renovation. The bottom of the floorplan page is where >>>>>>>>> the entrance >>>>>>>>> > > > is >>>>>>>>> > > > (Front door is angled) the room in question is directly to >>>>>>>>> the right of >>>>>>>>> > > > that, the specific wall to come down is to the right of the >>>>>>>>> room's door >>>>>>>>> > > > with the wall closest to the front door being turned into a >>>>>>>>> welcome bar >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > as >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > with the old space. Remember that this is simply discussion >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > everyone >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > can voice their concerns. Ultimately this should be decided >>>>>>>>> no later >>>>>>>>> > > > than >>>>>>>>> > > > Tuesday's meeting by the membership as per our >>>>>>>>> self-governance process ( >>>>>>>>> > > > https://synhak.org/wiki/Governance) so we can get a move on >>>>>>>>> with this >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > area >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > and once decided put it behind us. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>> > > [email protected] >>>>>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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