On Saturday, June 7, 2014 7:17 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <[email protected]> 
wrote:


>> so, what i am proposing is changing adkim and aspf DMARC tags so
>> they become:
>> a comma-separated list of "alignment-strength:domain" pairs, in which
> This probably doesn't solve the mailing list problem,

sure, it doesn't scale well to support more than a dozen domains, which
isn't a complete solution for mailing lists, but it can be used
in special cases when u have mailing lists that can't/won't adapt
to DMARC in any other possible or suggested way, and u can't
use any other developed workaround.

also, this whitelisting solution does fix quite a few other
use cases that DMARC without any 3rd party support simply
has to exclude. and most of those, if not all, r small scale
use cases, majority of worldwide scenarios.


actually, any proposed 3rd party alignment upgrade to DMARC would
do, imo.

what we need to agree upon is which is best overall. my proposal
may be quick, trivial, and simple... but Hector's proposal
is much more developed and opens wider support, and Douglas'
TPA-Label is rly complex but could fix almost anything and
everything.

and i may be missing some other proposal too.


also, there r DKIM-based upgrades to help workaround DMARC
deficiencies, however, imo, i would rather skip those, cause:

1. they don't fix SPF 3rd party alignment,
2. won't provide 3rd party alignment support out of box,
in case DMARC gets expanded to include another underlying protocol,
beside the SPF and DKIM,
3. r quite messy and seem unnatural.


>> receivers should have nothing to do with that, no guesswork, in
>> respect to DMARC, but they r forced to do it now, going even as far
>> to process "p=reject" as "p=quarantine".
> Nobody is *forced* to do any such thing.

they r "forced" by circumstances of DMARC having too much
false-positives with "p=reject". nobody wants unhappy users over
lost important email.

however, such practice essentially dismantles any strength DMARC has,
cause once services start treating reject as anything-but-not-reject,
it will become a common practice, and puff... away goes strong phishing
protection.

and then, it won't take long for phishers to understand what exactly
needs to be done to email to look like it should be treated as non-reject
by protocols at any receivers using such false-positives precautions.


that's where 3rd party support comes in. allowing domain-owner to
say: "trust here there like this and that, and don't trust anything
else", would dramatically ease upon any workarounds receivers need
to perform to keep DMARC false-positives as low as possible.

why? cause it will enable domain-owner to specify services it
considers more or less, but, trustworthy enough, to deliver its
mail.


>> yeah, well i don't define trivial and easy like that. and i doubt
>> any ESP will introduce something like that.
> Once again, you are not paying attention.  Franck Martin testifies
> that he knows of many ESPs willing to make necessary adjustments, and
> who are already doing so.

Franck isn't a representative of an ESP. i have full respect for
Franck ofc, but until i actually see an ESP publicly committing
to such a thing, it's all rumors.

and even if an ESP does such a thing, it doesn't mean it will
become a new common standard for all of them.

and even if it does become a new standard, it still doesn't preclude
actual 3rd party alignment support upgrade to DMARC, merely cause
3rd party support covers much more ground.


-- 
Vlatko Salaj aka goodone
http://goodone.tk

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