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Obskuras, I just checked your track on that site and fucking loved
it...Unlike mine, yours is ruff and ready, Ray Keith style (mine is a bouncy
one...). What I like about yours was it started off fairly naff (no offence),
but then got better and better at each breakdown; more and more varied and
original sounds coming in...Once question tho; is the quality low cuz of the
mp3? I'd like to hear a crisp version of it...
Good work mate!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:40
PM
Subject: [dnb-prod] RE: Breaks
Programming -How? Hidden Secret.....
I'm not saying I'm an expert actually, but on the amen
compo track I made I've used
Recycle to chop up the amen into exactly 23
seperate wav files, and reconstructed my
loops from there in Fruity.
If
I would've done that in SoundForge I'd probably spend hours doing just that,
instead
of minutes.
<plug>
You can check it out at http://www.groundmotion.com/amencompo
it's
the Obskuras track
</plug>
------------------------
On 19
Dec 2001, at 0:31, Jurgen Baute wrote:
>
> Don't want to
start an argument here,
> but I see Recycle as a tool to skip all the
tedious manual cutting you do in SoundForge.
>
> In 99% of the
cases Recycle gets it right, and if it doesn't it's just a matter of
>
adjusting the "looppoint",
> and of course, as you stated, it's a good
idea to use hits that are in the same "loop", or
> closer together, to
keep that magical flow in there.
>
> I'm glad a tool like Recycle
exists, so I can spend more time with the more fun bits of
> programming
a tune.
>
> Oh and btw,
> good post!! :)
>
> ------------------------
> On 18 Dec 2001, at 17:51, Scope -
Streetbeats wrote:
>
> > It's the same way most (breaks
oriented) producers do it now.
> > I always cut up breaks in
soundforge myself.
> > 1) its more accurate and MOST
importantly
> > 2) I don't just take the hits.
> >
>
> An explanation
> >
> > I'll take a drum loop, say two
bars in length, and once I've done all
> > the Direct X/VST plugin
magic in soundforge and wavelab......and once
> > ive got it at the
right temp.......then in soundforge I'll send the
> > whole loop to
sample number 1 say.
> > Then I'll cut that first beat off, and so
the loop is now shorter than
> > the full two bars, and will now
begin from say a hat inbetween the first
> > kick and snare. I'll
send that to sample number 2.
> > Then I'll cut it from the snare
onwards, and send this section to sample
> > 3.
> > Until I
get to the end of the loop, the last sample I send over should
> >
just be an individual hit, the last one in the loop.
> >
>
> Why do this you ask? Well sure it takes more memory in my sampler,
but
> > memory is cheap, and if you know how to use a sampler well
then you make
> > efficient use of that memory.
> >
>
> The main reason for doing this, is that all of the feeling in a
break
> > and the movement in it, the groove if you like is held in
the bits
> > inbetween the main hits.
> > Sometimes people
refer to these as ghost hits, and if its not ghost hits
> > then the
feeling often just comes from things like the decay
> >
characteristic of the hits.
> > So the way I use breaks, I have any
individual hit I want to hand,
> > keymapped. The difference being,
if I hold the key down, I get more than
> > just that hit, but a part
of the loop too.....
> >
> > Now back in the very first
instance, at or before the conception of
> > hardcore and d&b,
drum loops would be taken in there entireity, time
> > stretched and
laid down straight.
> > Then as time progressed you could see these
loops maybe being split into
> > a couple of sections etc, and
slightly rearranged.
> > And b4 you know it you have producers like
source direct and photek
> > cutting these breaks up as I described
above to give you ultimate
> > flexibility and re-arranging
power.
> >
> > So by laying down these various sections of
breaks, in different length
> > segments or whatever - there are no
rules - you can very quickly build
> > up different grooves.
>
>
> > Once you have that groove, you may want to clean it up a
little by
> > deconstructing any longer sections of loop you are
playing on a single
> > note into smaller sections, or even
individual hits.
> > When doing this, the envelope and filter
settings in your sampler become
> > crucial in obtaining the same
feel as you had whilst just playing a
> > section of the loop on that
one key.
> >
> > This step is also very important for
achieving a fat sound, because you
> > should have kicks, snares and
hats on different channels on the desk, so
> > you want the hist to
be as granular as possible whilst retaing a real
> > groove.
>
>
> > Its hard to describe, but quite a simple concept.
>
> A lot of producers I run into who are just getting going will be
using
> > recycle or whatever and programming these individual hits,
and the
> > result often sounds staccato and interupted.
> >
That's what you've got to avoid.
> >
> > Note that the
whole above ranting, is only one part of it, having the
> > right
sound on your breaks is awhole other consideration.
> >
> >
Hope this helps someone.
> >
> >
> >
**************************************
> > Get your FREE Web based
email at
> > http://www.m4jungle.com
> >
**************************************
> > Streetbeats, Noir, Pi,
Z-no
> > http://www.streetbeats.co.uk
>
> http://www.m4jungle.com
>
> http://www.noir-recordings.com
>
> http://www.pi-recordings.com
>
> http://www.z-no.co.uk
> >
**************************************
> >
> >
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carr, Timm
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 18 December 2001 17:26
>
> To: Drum & Bass Arena Discussion List
> > Subject:
[dnb-prod] RE: Breaks Programming -How? Hidden Secret.....
> >
> >
> > recycle really does help with the cutting up of
sampled breaks.
> >
> > > ----------
> > >
From: Daniel Norman
> > > Reply To: Drum & Bass Arena
Discussion List
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:34
AM
> > > To: Drum & Bass Arena Discussion List
> >
> Subject: [dnb-prod] Breaks Programming -How? Hidden Secret.....
>
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > After
all the stuff about PC conflicts and nastiness, I've got a
> > >
question on good old beats production.
> > >
> > >
Since peeps here can cast their minds back to stunning tunes like
>
> > Source Direct / Oblivion on Streetbeats and basically all the Photek
> > > Productions, DeeJay Recordings (Pete Parsons - genius),
deep stuff
> > > etc, etc - i was just wondering if anyone here
had ever managed to
> > > approach their kind of breaks
programming. How the f*ck do they do it?
> > >
> > >
I only really bought my studio kit to try to make intricate breaks for
>
>
> > > myself like i had always heard from those guys and
after 2 yrs i know
> > > what i'm doing, but i can't get my
breaks to sound like they used to
> > > in 95....
> >
>
> > > Basically, I haven't got Recycle for the A3000v2
sampler yet and i'm
> > > thinking this is where i'm missing out.
Can you generally use Recycle
> > > to make to beats like on the
tunes above. I have processed a ton of
> > > breaks in Cool Edit
Pro, but its during the tune that i can't quite
> > > get them to
cut up properly and still sound runnin'
> > >
> > >
I'm using a PII 450, Logic Silver and the Yamaha A3000, whereas I'm
>
> > guessing peeps used to use Ataris and early Macs with Akai S3000
> > > samplers - i know the timing of PCs, Logic and the Yam
sampler might
> > > not be so good as the Atari and Akai, but
surely thats not the whole
> > > story?
> > >
> > > I'm thinking that Recycle/SCSI card might be the
ultimate
> > > solution.....
> > >
> > >
Any help would be cool,
> > >
> > > Cheers,
>
> >
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > DISCLAIMER: The
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>
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