On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:46:33AM +0100, Andreas Messer wrote: [cut]
> > So my oppinion is, that, at least for transition or migration purposes > we need to provide two paths in devuan, the user needs to choose one of them > > - consolekit(2) + policykit > - elogind + policykit-logind > Dear Andreas, I respectfully disagree on that point. Devuan should always allow a third option, that is: - none of the above and a fourth option, that is: - mix and match, at your own risk This is an attitude that we can't relinquish, whatever the cost. It's at the very heart of Devuan. Not all Devuan users want to have a fully "featured" desktop, and they must retain the possibility of *not* having any of that cruft in their systems (yes, I normally consider that stuff *cruft* in my systems, and I am definitely one of those choosing "none of the above"). Many Devuan users are natural tinkerers, to whom experimenting is at the heart of their GNU/Linux experience. Many more are server users, and don't give a toss to the elogind + policycit + consolekit clusterfuck anyway. Being a universal operating system is about allowing users to choose what to use and what to discard, avoiding unnecessary entanglement. That's why we are here. > Generally i would like to see get rid of all systemd originating software > monoliths. So what i could imagine: > > - Create a logind replacement which redirects all dbus queries to consolekit > and let consolekit doe the session management. dbus queries for which no > consolekit stuff exists (e.g. shutdown/reboot...) could be simply fan out > into an external command, e.g. shell script. Its up to the > administrator/maintainer whats happens then. Using this we can have > consolekit > and logind api at the same time while not struggling with two session > management systems. > > - Create a minimal logind replacement which uses unix commands as thought of > by Adam. This can be used by people who want install DEs requiring logind > but dont want ck or logind to be installed > > If this is possible, every one can choose what he like and what fits > her/his needs. That is the spirit of linux. > To create something we need creators. Personally, I am not interested in desktop-things (it should be very clear by now :P), so I don't see myself actively working to develop replacements for those components. I am otherwise interested in experimenting with different possible alternatives for device management (mdev/smdev?), init systems (sinit?), and process management (perp?), and in possibly making them available in Devuan for those who like minimalism. That's my personal goal for after ascii will be out. Developing a universal operating system is about me and you working at the same distribution, with goals as different as a microminimal shell-only system and a full-featured gorgeous desktop environment, and still not noticing any inconsistency. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ]
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