-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:43:05 +0100 > Von: Tom Hendrikx <t...@whyscream.net> > An: Steve <steeeeev...@gmx.net>, dspam-user@lists.sourceforge.net > Betreff: Re: [Dspam-user] DSPAM 3.9.0 BETA 4
> Steve wrote: > > > You miss one point: Everyone and his dog think they can package the > > product better. Let's look for example at Debian: They break up the > > configuration in peaces and have one part in dspam.conf while having > > another part some where external. > > > > And now just think about how many different distros are there and > > other OS that do the same. And now try to bring one universal tool > > helping to configure all those DSPAM installations. Good look doing > > that! > > Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to advocate for a 'universal tool'. > If we can install all the relevant stuff in relevant locations (based on > FHS or any other sane standard), > FHS only applies to certain OS. Linux for example. But what about all the different *BSD brands? And what about all the different incarnations of Solaris/Open Solaris? etc... It's not easy to be multi platform. > we can also ship a tool that can work > with this setup. Distros can customize by using --prefix and the likes, > and the DSPAM build scripts can deal with it. > > If Debian or anybody else decides that they know better than upstream, > then that is their way of working. I'm sure they'll find a way to make > good use of a configuration tool we ship, or just remove it from their > package. > > > > > At the time when I wrote that configure part for the Ebuild, every > > one in the Gentoo community was crying out loud how hard it is to > > configure DSPAM. I could not hear any more those complains so I did > > not wanted to repeat the same and again the same message/instructions > > on the Gentoo forum. That was one of the reasons I rewrote the > > Ebuild. > > Dspam *is* hard to configure, also after using the script in the ebuild: > there are lots of other options that might need some fiddling before you > have dspam running in a way fit for you, your users and your hardware. > > For instance: the choice for large-scale, domain-scale or none of them. > It is not clear what the choice means for your setup: does it affect the > default config, or does it also affect the way Dspam works internally? > Why does Dspam have this option, and Postfix for example doesn't? Or to > turn it the other way: why needs Dspam such a thing and Postfix or > Dovecot do not? > Dovecot has something like that. And Postfix as well. They use it in different areas of the product. And all this because of speed and other limitations/influences of the underlaying file system. You have to think global. Can you imagine 1 million email addresses managed by DSPAM? And all of those 1 million emails saved under /var/spool/dspam/data/xxxxx. Flat. No hierarchy at all. Can you imagine how horribly slow lookups in this directory will be? That's the reason for the large-scale and/or domain-scale. They both try to mitigate that issue by splitting the directory either on the first two letters of the email (large scale) or by splitting on domain level (domain scale). And don't think that DSPAM is the only one doing that. Squid is doing the same with their cache directory. Postfix is doing it in the queue. Dovecot is doing it when storing the mails in mbox or maildir (see mail_location and the various options to tweak how to organize your mail store). > I just want to show an example (the answer is in the README), there are > so much things that you cannot gripe without reading all the docs again > and again. Postfix is quite easy to setup: default install and 30 > minutes with a howto suffice for a simple test setup, and it does stuff > like domain-/large-scale in the config file, so you can fiddle with it > easily, *after* having your initial setup up and running. With Dspam you > get lost in the knobs and dials that have all kinds of functions that > are far from obvious, even before can type 'make && make install' ;) > You want to tell me that Postfix is obvious? No way! Some one never having anything done with messaging will have his hard time to configure a properly working Postfix. And the same goes for DSPAM. Without reading and understanding what you read it's hard. No mater at what you look. > Maybe it would make a nice point on the todo-list to look into a way to > make sure that new users can get a new install up and running without > too much hassle, even without a configuration utility or strong guidance > /lots of work from their distro. > I would love if that would be possible. But I am afraid that you can't much abstract things in DSPAM. It's not as easy as adding a gearshift, clutch, brake pedal and an accelerator. You need to understand some fundamental things and if you don't understand them then it's not easy to handle DSPAM. If some one is not understanding how tokenizers are working then how the heck is one supposed to abstract that in DSPAM? > > > > I do that often. You should see my nginx Ebuild. It's the same here. > > The original Ebuild is just plain wrong. But hey... I am to bored to > > fight with people in the b.g.o about obvious things. I use the Ebuild > > for me and I know that is right (I specifically asked the original > > author about configure options and his response confirmed me that the > > current Ebuild for nginx is not 100% correct). Today I would probably > > to the same with the DSPAM Ebuild. I would rewrite it and NOT submit > > it to b.g.o. > > > > Don't get me wrong. I love Gentoo but some things are just not the > > way it should be. You could now ask yourself who the hell I am to > > complain about Gentoo and say what is right and what is wrong? You > > are right. > > > > I ran into some of these issues also, but maybe I'm not so harsh about > it as you are (yet). Still I love Gentoo as a platform. > I love Gentoo too. I am using it since ages. I used it even before it was called Gentoo. And I know for what it is good and for what not. QA is definitely not (easy) possible with Gentoo. > -- > Regards, > Tom > Steve -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! 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