Hi Paul,

How about a real life example of what happended 5 min ago.

I've got about 7 files open.  Two of them are named very similar.  Even the
code inside is similar looking, though not exactly the same.  I make some
minor changes to one of them, but it was the wrong file.  I had mistakenly
thought I was working on file A and instead I made the mods to file B.

(Let's not digress into the "you should pay more attention/be more careful"
comments for now.  I agree I should have been more aware of where I was
making the changes)

In my world, I dont save the changes to A and paste it to B and we're done.
In IDEAs world, changes are saved to A no matter what.  Because I am using
CVS, the mods to file A (even though there are no "real" changes made
because I backed them out) appear to be a new version.  In order to get to
where I started from, I need to do an Update | Get Clean Copy on file A (or
save the changes in CVS and provide no comment or a dummy comment like
"there are no changes --this is really the same file".

Let's be clear about the ramifications of what I am saying in a broader
context.  Inadvertant keystrokes in files 1, 2, and 3 followed by a save
needed for a different file (4) force me to undo changes in files 1, 2 and
3.  These inadventant keystrokes could be as simple as hitting the space key
by accident.  I just did it to test it.  I hit the space bar and then hit
backspace to get to where I was before I did that, but to IDEA ---the file
is changed.  Now I have a file that is out of sync with CVS.  The contents
are exactly the same, but because IDEA chose to save it, I now have to deal
with the task of getting a clean copy from CVS or otherwise reconciling the
issue.

This heavy handed "I know better than you" approach by the IDE is not
helpful.  For christ sake, what is the worst that can happen if I choose to
save a file by itself?  What is the downside?  Suddenly things may not
compile?  So what.  I can address that.  This "let me save it for you and
you can undo it if you dont like it" mentality is horrible.

Why is it an all or none choice?  You guys can continue to approve of and
enjoy the current behavior, while I and others can (if necessary) make use
of a "save this file only" behavior when needed.  This is such a no brainer
to implement that the fact that this has been debated on multiple occasions
with Jetbrains and others saying "you'll see the light someday" amazes me.
I'm not saying stop the save all files functionality; only to add a save one
file only option.



"Paul Bradshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
amnc02$3ha$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:amnc02$3ha$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I do that as well... but instead of relying on using an in-memory unsaved
> version as my 'version control', I just revert the changes if I need to do
> something like that.  This is what version control is for.  Now that I'm
> used to it, it seems really weird to use a transient unsaved file in
memory
> (inconsistent with the disk image) as some sort of version control or
> poor-man's "undo".  I defintely prefer never having to worry about a saved
> state, and knowing that all changes are always recoverable via undo or via
> version control system.  I can concentrate more on the code and less on
what
> the state of each editor is.  It's a VERY positive change, imho.  It
didn't
> take me THAT long to get used to it, though like you, it seemed very weird
> to me at first because I was so used to worrying about nonsense like that.
> Not any more.
>
> "Michael Morett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> amfjp5$gin$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:amfjp5$gin$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Mark,
> >
> > I gotta agree with you on this one. I also sometimes open "a file, hack
it
> > up, and then close without saving the changes."  My current solution is
to
> > use WinCVS and perform an Update | Get Clean Copy since this option
isn't
> > available from within IDEA.
> >
> > I dont use LCVS and dont know much about the benefits of going this
route
> so
> > I cant comment on the rollback thing.
> >
> > But for my particular situation, I have to rely on a second program
> (WinCVS)
> > to undo a save I didn't want done in the firstplace.  I will stand alone
> or
> > stand with you and hold fast to the notion that under IDEA shouldn't be
> > making that decision for me, or remove me from the process of making the
> > decision of if I want to save a file.
> >
> > I dont understand the aggresive defensive posture of those defending
this
> > "feature".  I've got auto-sync turned off for performance reasons and so
> > when I do a CVS Update, I'm immediately out of sync.  The world doesn't
> end.
> > I do manual syncs when needed.  If the biggest negative of having a
> per-file
> > save is an out of sync environment, then why allow me to turn off auto
> sync
> > if it's that important?
> >
> > Bottom line:  if I have files A and B and I want to save changes to A
and
> > not B, I can't do it in IDEA.  That's sad. Does the current mode of
> > operation hinder my work?  No.  I work around it.  But it's a pain in
the
> > ass to have to do this.  Why make me save changes to A and B and force
me
> to
> > undo B?
> >
> > I'll see you at the stoning ceremony Mark...
> >
> >
> > "markshotwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Well, I am not against the auto-save and the LVCS, especially as I know
> more
> > about it.  I do think that it can be improved somewhat; the right click
to
> > rollback was not very intuitive to me.  If anything, I think that the
> > feature can be expanded and improved even more, to make it more
valuable.
> >
> > MS Word has auto-save, as does Excel, just a different implementation of
> it;
> > roll back is primarily by closing the file without saving it.
> >
> > And, sometimes, I open a file, hack it up, copy out what I wanted, and
> then
> > close without saving the changes.  Just an old(bad) habit I still use.
:)
> >
> > It just happens to be how things currently are and what I am used to;
but
> I
> > can also get use to some other things(and have)
> >
> > However, with that said, I really conceded the debate few posts back(not
> > that it really did much good); I actually went on a tangent a while
back.
> :)
> >
> > Though, I find a certain irony in all of this.
> >
> > Truth is, I am more concerned about some of the interface features.  It
is
> > one of the reasons I use JCreator over WASD; more customizable and mouse
> > friendly.  JCreator may not(yet) be as fancy as IDEA, but for the price,
> it
> > gets the job done nicely; the current lack of any real JSP support is my
> > only main issue with it.  But, at the same time, some of the features in
> > IDEA are very nice, especially the JSP support.
> >
> > Sometimes, for me(and this is something that is not going to change)
IDEA
> is
> > a royal pain to use, cause I can't do some things easily(for me).  I
would
> > absolutely love to put a find next and find previous button on the
> toolbar;
> > I know some people don't.  I constantly go for it, but it isn't there.
> > Having to stop and reach for F3 screws up my momentum and flow; and to
be
> > honest, annoys me to no end.  Sometimes, I am literally working in bed,
> with
> > my laptop and optical mouse(I love those things), in dim light, and
> > constantly have to change hand positions just causes me more problems;
> such
> > as my all too common ctrl-c when I meant to ctrl-v(which in IDEA causes
me
> > another problem).
> >
> > I really am trying to like the product, but I will like it because it
> works
> > well for me; not because anyone else tells me that it does/should.
> > Basically, all of the fancy features in the world are not of much value
if
> > they are not convenient to me.
> >
> > And, I still say I am seriously disturbed. :)
> >
> >
> >
>
>


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