Hmmm, perhaps. I am Pia Paaby, I have a Ph.D. and currently supporting an educational program in Organization for Tropical Studies in Costa Rica. A lot of our efforts are concentrated on stimulating students to actually take this important decision... go to grad school and keep going until you get a Ph.D. The reason we do this is because we are of the opinion that a lot of research is generated by grad students. Tropical areas are in great need of information to keep learning about sustainable management of biodiversity. Regarding publishing, this is actually some of our greatest successes because we have 8 weeks experiences with undergraduates doing only research together with mentors... of all these we have had 25 % published articles in edited journals where all of them have had the student as the main author. The one that thinks about the question, decides on the field design, analyzes and then finally writes the article will always have first authorship... so we teach our students to do this. Some thoughts for you guys to make a decision. Ph.D is usually a research avenue. M.Sc. is usually a technical and development avenue. Ig you are business oriented and have great skills at it, then degrees usually do not make any difference on income. In any other fields, a degree makes a huge difference. Saludos Pia
-----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Aaron T. Dossey Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 7:41 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] "The Audacity of Graduate School" This s very good advice. I would add to talk all students, postdocs, both current AND FORMER from the labs you are considering. Do this well in advance, even before you apply. Consider not ONLY their opinion of the experience "yeah, I had fun" will not get you a good career/job. Ask them questions like "were you allowed to publish your own work independently of the boss if you wished?", "did your boss force you to work evenings and weekends?", "How many hours per week did your faculty boss actually work in the lab? How frequently did you meet with them, or even see them? Every week, few weeks, every few months, or less?"... I can give you additional important questions to ask if you like. "Only 2 years for MSc" is a bit misleading. In science careers most of the time MSc doesn't count for much - the oligarchs and gatekeepers of the ivory tower categorize the world as "Ph.D. or no Ph.D.", which I find deplorable, elitist and unproductive. Also, consider the following as to the value of a Ph.D. in one's career search - and that 14% or less of Ph.D.s will get one of those cushy academic positions (and read the articles and posts on this page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/National-Postdoc-Union/275402225908673 ): When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone else - a degree. There are many successful scientists without Ph.D.'s but many more with Ph.D.'s who are unemployed. In the field of environmental science, for example, I would guess that the need for a Ph.D. is even less - there is a great need for this feed particularly in applied work, policy, non-profit organizations, etc. Also, to emphasize how little we get out of a Ph.D. (a lot is stolen from us), we don't get credit for our work or publications because the professor always gets credit for everything we do while in their lab as a student or postdoc (which is something I am fighting on other fronts - I call it institutionalized intellectual property theft). Also, right out of undergrad or grad school, the academic world (guess what - 14% or less of Ph.D.'s in this country will land one of those cushy cushy do-nothing-paid-much supreme-court-like job security independent academic research jobs anyhow) you haven't yet finished the requirement of your indentured servitude. You must still pay the faculty gatekeepers MORE years of your life and intellectual property via endless postdoc/postech/postemp positions. Again, read the articles on the "National Postdoc Union" page. No one gets a faculty position right out of grad school anymore, or anything close to it, unless they marry into one, their spouse gets one for them or some other form of nepotism (a friend or relative on the search committee). https://www.facebook.com/pages/National-Postdoc-Union/275402225908673 On 10/17/2012 1:23 AM, David Schneider wrote: > Hello Ecolog, > Here are my thoughts, written 11 PM from Boulder, CO. > > Grad school is indeed audacious, and not a default choice. > As someone who spent 3 years on the 'dark side' (academic > admin) I know that there are *huge* differences among labs. > Some labs are very happy and students move to productive professional > lives. Other labs are miserable. > > My advice is, ask yourself why you are going to grad school. Then use > the web to investigate labs. In addition to contacting the prof, > contact students in the lab and ask them about their experience. Like > me, some profs encourage prospective students to contact current and > former students (maybe I'm weird). > > By way, the numbers on NSERC (Canada) success rates quoted below are > misleading. Success rates are low in some programs, well above 70% in > others. For grad students, most universities in Canada offer 20-25K/ > year in science, if you meet academic standards and are accepted. > It's not princely, but then it's only 2 years for MSc, if you find the > right lab. And it's mostly or all a stipend. > It's not full time TA. > > David S. > http://www.mun.ca/osc/dschneider/ > > > > Quoting "Aaron T. Dossey"<bugoc...@gmail.com>: > >> Actually, I would strongly recommend AGAINST grad school, or grad >> school only as a last resort. There are many ways to achieve a >> successful and fruitful career while following your dreams, and many >> roads that do not lead through a stint as a temporary under-paid >> technician/piece of equipment (ie: grad student and postdoc/postech/postemp). >> >> First, figure out what you want to do, then investigate what it takes >> to get there. You'll be surprised at how few careers actually >> require a Ph.D., and how few careers which do require one actually >> exist/are available. >> >> Good luck! >> ATD of ATB >> >> -- > Here is the article in Chronicle of Higher Ed. > > http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/a > rticles/2012_09_28/caredit.a1200108 > >> >> >> On 10/16/2012 11:38 PM, Lindsay Veazey wrote: >>> As one of many hopeful individuals trying to find an open program in >>> which >> to >>> begin an advanced degree, I'd also like to point out the pitiful >>> state of scientific funding in North America. The current NSERC >>> funding success rate >> is >>> below 8%, and the NSF success rate hovers around 20%. Additionally, >>> in my discussions with students of all levels, both current and >>> (hopefully) prospective, I've noticed that funding has essentially >>> dried up for M.Sc candidates, and is not much better for Ph.D candidates. >>> >>> I'm wondering if any subscribers have recommendations for programs >>> abroad, like MESPOM, that welcome foreign students instead of stack >>> the deck >> against >>> their entry. >>> >>> Dr. Dossey, thank you for a well written submission that rings all >>> too >> true. >> >> -- >> Aaron T. Dossey, Ph.D. >> Biochemistry and Molecular Biology >> Founder/Owner: All Things Bugs >> Capitalizing on Low-Crawling Fruit from Insect-Based Innovation >> http://allthingsbugs.com/about/people/ >> http://www.facebook.com/Allthingsbugs >> 1-352-281-3643 >> > > > This electronic communication is governed by the terms and conditions > at > http://www.mun.ca/cc/policies/electronic_communications_disclaimer_201 > 2.php -- Aaron T. Dossey, Ph.D. Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Founder/Owner: All Things Bugs Capitalizing on Low-Crawling Fruit from Insect-Based Innovation http://allthingsbugs.com/about/people/ http://www.facebook.com/Allthingsbugs 1-352-281-3643 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
