Wayne (and ECOLOG readers), To put in my two cents, I would simply like to point out that this Permaculture class is a posting of an opportunity just like many of the other opportunities that have been posted to ECOLOG in the past few years--research internships, assistantships, summer jobs and seminars. ECOLOG has not historically been *only* to "exchange ideas in an open forum"--it *has *been used to post advertisements for opportunities. I, for one, welcome the knowledge of the possibilities open to me, whether or not I agree with the premise or implementation of Permaculture design. I say, keep them coming!
Additionally, Permaculture is no longer the substance-lacking field that you knew it to be in the 1970's--like biological research (and with it, I might argue), it has changed with new discoveries. More Permaculturalists are specializing so as to offer you the "specifics" you need (e.g., see this selection <http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/gardening_agriculture/> of books on specific topics Permaculture touches on). The design course is only the first step, and NOT the place to offer those specifics (though, I agree, the post's example should have been different). The only difference between the scientific community and the Permaculture community is that Permaculturalists are more willing to act on the knowledge gained from research discoveries in the scientific community. Therefore, it seems that you two work as a team. Whether or not you agree, Permaculture is gaining a following, and the scientific community will need to find a way to work with, around, or through it. -- *Megan Krintz* * * * * On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: > Ecolog: > > These are the same old generalizations and appeals for money based on > sentiment that I heard from Mollison in the 1970's. The Permaculture folks > never seem to get even close to specifics, and that bothers me. Mollison > did get into specifics back then, in a personal conversation we had at the > break, and he did seem to have some good ideas that revealed that he had > some knowledge of "practical" applications, such as burying old carpet in > certain ways, and I have tried that particular "method" with variable > results in other ways. > > While I might share some of the sentiments, in the absence of specific > examples I can't suppress my suspicion that this might fall into the > category of "eco" exploitation, more than substantive progress in the realm > of ecosystem management. > > I have never had the chutzpa to advertise my seminars on Ecolog (except > for the free one), I would, were I so inclined, now feel free to write up > an advertisement for my own quirky approach to ecosystem observation, > management, and restoration. Unfortunately I have had a bs-ectomy. But > perhaps I can arrange for a transplant of that evil gene if I can find a > qualified donor? > > I have been laboring under the presumption that the main function of > Ecolog was to exchange ideas in an open forum rather than to advertise for > customers. I would welcome postings from "permaculture" folks that are more > in the realm of specific contributions to ecology. Surely their theoretical > foundations could be revealed without threatening their trade secrets, > could they not? > > WT > > "Absolute faith corrupts absolutely" --Eric Hoffer > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feral Mycelium" < > [email protected]**> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:20 PM > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] [Be the Change] Sustainability, Permaculture and > Leadership > > > Hello friends, > > Many people think of permaculture as gardening, but that's a lot like > thinking of math as being only good for building bridges. 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