[ECOLOG-L] Low income availability RE: [ECOLOG-L] Permaculture mysteries Re: [ECOLOG-L] [Be the Change] Sustainability, Permaculture and Leadership

[Rebecca Miller]

Hello Dr. McCloskey,

I feel obligated to weigh in on a statement of yours, particularly  
because I have been independently keeping up on the availability of  
permaculture practices and targeted food security for low income  
communities. You state that "ideas like permaculture, organic food  
(etc.) all hurt and are not available to low income families". While  
many programs, organizations and certifications DO cater to  
comfortably curious middle income folks or companies interested in  
promoting a "green" facade, there are some truly exciting developments  
at the interface of communities and these ideas.

Innovation that blossoms from necessity is driving these developments;  
small beginnings with limited funding based on the need for change. I  
hope that these examples expand your conception of permaculture,  
organic farming and related ideas.

I do recognize the need for communication of available programs and  
concepts. Our country has the wonderful resource of Cooperative  
Extension System Offices that provide detailed information, contacts,  
grants, etc. concerning agriculture, animal care, education, food and  
nutrition and community organizations. Many low income communities  
don't feel like these resources are available FOR them. We have a duty  
to make all people feel welcome to the wealth of information and  
support that is available.


Planting Justice:  
http://www.plantingjustice.org/about-us/organizational-history
Permaculture and backyard gardening in the Oakland area

Growing Power: http://www.growingpower.org/about_us.htm
Backyard aquaponics and home food production caught the attention of  
revolutionary thinker Will Allen, who bought the last remaining  
Milwaukee farm in a virtual food desert in 1993. ?There was no real  
food to eat within five blocks of the largest project in the city,?  
recalls Allen, who realized he wanted to do something about feeding  
people who only had access to convenience stores and fast food chains.  
Today, the former pro basketball player invests sweat equity every day  
in Growing Power, Inc., his community-based urban farm. On his  
two-acre Community Food Center, just beyond a busy city street, goats  
graze, chickens peck and scratch, bees buzz and ducks and rabbits  
thrive. This flurry of activity takes place while 20,000 plants and  
vegetables grow in greenhouses along with thousands of yellow perch,  
which are sold to local restaurants and grocery stores.
Their urban farms are located in Chicago and Milwaukee Projects.

Food Day blog entry highlighting multiple urban farms and community  
organizations operational in low income communities:  
http://www.foodday.org/from_blight_to_bounty_revitalizing_communities_through_urban_farming

Healthy Food Financing Initiative:  
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ocs/resource/healthy-food-financing-initiative-0

Auburn University's Rural Studio:  
http://cadc.auburn.edu/apla/pages/the_rural_studio.aspx
http://www.onbeing.org/program/architecture-decency/feature/rural-studio-road-trip-blog/1586
conceived as a method to improve the living conditions in rural  
Alabama and to include hands-on experience in an architectural  
pedagogy (this IS a university architecture program, not directly  
available to low income families)



Becky Miller
BioResource Research major
Oregon State University


Quoting Kevin Burls <kbu...@unr.edu>:

Hi Jon-
I can certainly grant the premise that aspects of LEED  
certification, organic certification, etc. are beyond the financial  
grasp of many. These topics, however, have not much to do with  
permaculture. Many of the best permaculture sites are located in  
developing countries, often times using hand-only techniques. In  
addition, many of the resources I offered below are freely  
available. Perhaps you could clarify parts you think could be  
improved?

Second, I am not convinced the accusation that permaculture ideas  
are stolen from "good work" is valid. Scientists that publish  
primary research are almost certainly paid for it, and they  
published with the knowledge (dare I say hope) that others would use  
what they have learned. I think there needs to be a distinction  
between dissemination of research results to the public and  
'stealing' original work; that doesn't seem to be in your argument.

Finally, I am not sure that LEED certs not living up to the claim of  
saving threatened or endangered species has any bearing on  
permaculture as an effective food production system. There is a  
growing body of evidence and research being done on the  
effectiveness of permaculture (see http://robscott.net/upp/ for just  
one example), and red herring arguments about other sustainable  
frameworks are inappropriate.

I do agree others should do research on their own to decide; my post  
was mainly to post a counter-argument to the "no specifics, lots of  
money" post and to offer some resources for readers to decide on  
their own.

Kevin Burls

On Jan 10, 2013, at 11:38 AM, jon mccloskey wrote:

Kevin et al.

This is classic conservation and control thesis/argument.

Ideas like permaculture, "organic" food, the eco-boost engine,  
ridiculous "green" laws, LEED, etc. all hurt or are not available to  
low income families.  Thus, they are not a solution because they are  
not affordable to most people.  So, if you do the math, unless the  
majority of people are on board (and they won't be unless you make  
it affordable) then it is simply exploitation.  Another problem is  
that the ideas expressed and sold are essentially stolen from others  
(e.g., scientists who publish good work) who worked hard to provide  
knowledge to society and policy makers...not for elites with money  
to make more money.

Also, if you look at the evidence these ideas do not do what they  
claim.  This has been shown again and again by studies on LEED  
certified buildings and schools as well as wildlife preserves that  
were designed supposedly to save T&E species.  I urge you all to  
look at the real evidence, do the math, and ignore the propaganda on  
both sides.

Jon McCloskey, Ph.D.


Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:37:37 +0000
From: kbu...@unr.edu<mailto:kbu...@unr.edu>
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Permaculture mysteries Re: [ECOLOG-L] [Be  
the Change] Sustainability, Permaculture and Leadership
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU<mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>

Wayne (and ecolog):
There are a couple starting references that might be of interest to  
you regarding foundations and specific techniques of permaculture.

Mollison, Bill. 1988. Permaculture: A Designer's Manual. Australia:  
Tagari Publications.

Hemenway, Toby. 2000. Gaia's garden: A guide to home-scale  
permaculture. Vermont: Chelsea Green Publishing.

Many more are available here:  
http://www.permaculture-media-download.com/2011/11/best-permaculture-homesteading-books.html

These books go into great detail about the foundations of  
permaculture, which uses patterning principles from systems  
ecology, and concepts like niches, succession and nutrient cycling  
from ecology. They also describe most of the commonly used  
techniques in permaculture, including things like rainwater  
harvesting and water retention on the landscape, guild polyculture  
planting, and earthworks to retain moisture and soil fertility.  
These techniques are by no means secret, trademarked, or costly;  
many of the techniques can be found for free online, in places like  
www.permies.com<http://www.permies.com>,  
www.oasisdesign.net<http://www.oasisdesign.net> (see this section  
on greywater:  
http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/misinfo/index.htm),  
permaculture.org.au<http://permaculture.org.au> (see this section  
on swales as a water-retention technique:  
http://permaculture.org.au/2010/12/15/a-guide-to-back-flood-swales/), or  
www.appropedia.org<http://www.appropedia.org>, which has a wealth  
of information on a huge array of topics.

A quick note on permaculture: there seems to be some confusion  
about permaculture being a branch of ecology. It is not, nor has it  
claimed to be. Permaculture is an applied discipline focusing on  
sustainable food production and site design by using ecological  
principles, using theory (but not creating it) from ecology,  
evolution, hydrology, physics, and conventional agricultural  
science. To want permaculture to be a theoretical discipline is to  
ask for something it can't deliver, nor is it supposed to.

Finally, a note on monetary value: I can appreciate skepticism  
regarding paying random people to tell you things you could find in  
a book, or that might even be misguided or untrue. However, asking  
for payment for a week-long class that provides food and lodging is  
hardly suspicous. Nor is it commonplace for 'real,' academic  
information to be given away for free. I don't necessarily need to  
list examples, but I will:

--academic textbooks (this great pollination ecology book is cheap  
at $50:  
http://www.amazon.com/Pollination-Floral-Ecology-Pat-Willmer/dp/0691128618/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1357842276&sr=8-7&keywords=pollinator+ecology)

--academic seminars (the amazing Summer Institute in Statistical  
Genetics at U. of Washington is certainly not free:  
http://www.biostat.washington.edu/node/967)

--academic classes (I get to pay $600 a semester simply to finish  
my Ph.D. using 'dissertation credits')

--academic journals (Wiley-Blackwell only recently starting giving  
any of their articles for free, but try getting this great article  
on plant breeding systems if you aren't lucky enough to have an  
institution password:  
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1558-5646.2012.01730.x/pdf)

--and academic research (our University has an F&A cost for grants  
of 42% currently).

The academic framework we have in place does assure us some quality  
for the money we pay, but this does not bear on the appropriateness  
of paying for a product. To claim that academics is less than any  
other business, requiring money in exchange for products and  
services, and to thus require all other areas of research give away  
everything for free, is an unfair burden.

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of every permaculture flyer  
that comes across ecolog any more than I can vouch for the  
greatness of research of any scientist that happens to send a blog  
post, but to claim that permaculture has no specifics or that none  
of it is 'free' is untrue and has the potential to mislead people  
new to the terms and ideas.

Kevin Burls





On Jan 9, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Wayne Tyson wrote:

Ecolog:

These are the same old generalizations and appeals for money based  
on sentiment that I heard from Mollison in the 1970's. The  
Permaculture folks never seem to get even close to specifics, and  
that bothers me. Mollison did get into specifics back then, in a  
personal conversation we had at the break, and he did seem to have  
some good ideas that revealed that he had some knowledge of  
"practical" applications, such as burying old carpet in certain  
ways, and I have tried that particular "method" with variable  
results in other ways.

While I might share some of the sentiments, in the absence of  
specific examples I can't suppress my suspicion that this might  
fall into the category of "eco" exploitation, more than substantive  
progress in the realm of ecosystem management.

I have never had the chutzpa to advertise my seminars on Ecolog  
(except for the free one), I would, were I so inclined, now feel  
free to write up an advertisement for my own quirky approach to  
ecosystem observation, management, and restoration. Unfortunately I  
have had a bs-ectomy. But perhaps I can arrange for a transplant of  
that evil gene if I can find a qualified donor?

I have been laboring under the presumption that the main function  
of Ecolog was to exchange ideas in an open forum rather than to  
advertise for customers. I would welcome postings from  
"permaculture" folks that are more in the realm of specific  
contributions to ecology. Surely their theoretical foundations  
could be revealed without threatening their trade secrets, could  
they not?

WT

"Absolute faith corrupts absolutely" --Eric Hoffer




----- Original Message ----- From: "Feral Mycelium"  
<feralmycel...@permaculture.me<mailto:feralmycel...@permaculture.me>>
To: <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU<mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:20 PM
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] [Be the Change] Sustainability, Permaculture  
and Leadership


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Kevin Burls
Ph.D. candidate
EECB Program
University of Nevada, Reno
kbu...@unr.edu<mailto:kbu...@unr.edu>
http://wolfweb.unr.edu/~kburls

Kevin Burls
Ph.D. candidate
EECB Program
University of Nevada, Reno
kbu...@unr.edu<mailto:kbu...@unr.edu>
http://wolfweb.unr.edu/~kburls