It seems to me that plenty of people do and have been practicing "Permaculture" (quotes used to reflect that there doesn't seem to be any one definition and "Permaculture," at least for folks using the term, is a moving target) for millenia. They may not have had a catchy title to apply to what they did, and they may or may not have made any money doing it.
I feel that "Permaculture" is more ideology than practice. There are plenty of farmers, apiarists, gardeners and backyard ecologists that do all the right things and stick to the principles that "Permaculture" espouses without even knowing what those principles are. Yet these people are rarely the ones teaching the classes. That seems to be the realm of idealogues, which is unfortunate. Conversely, the people taking the classes are unlikely to do anything with the "training" they receive either. Having offered several permaculture courses (and charging close to 800 bucks for six 8-hour classes) here, I have gotten to know both the instructors and pupils well. I could make generalizations, but that's how we've ended up with this heated discussion in the first place. The bottom line is: people will wait in line to get ripped off. It's just the way of the world. Railing against it isn't going to change anything. Canned pet food, designer clothes, bottled water...all rip-offs, and yet how many of us still buy them? I'm not saying it's wrong; I'm just saying "that's life." Scott Creary IPM Specialist Phipps Conservatory and Botanical Gardens www.phipps.conservatory.org On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 6:54 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]>wrote: > The practices and style of a specific business endevour (trying to make > money out of a discipline) has nothing to do with the practices and style > of the discipline itself. Why do you keep mixing the two? You will not find > in any permaculture book instructions on how to advertise or charge for a > course, something you may find in business schools. > > Likely you won't see the style of the many people practising or teaching > permaculture outside the "for sale" world until you dig a tiny little > deeper or travel to experimental sites (these includes all sorts of > realities in the western and in the "developing" world). > > The above is the reason you received answers you maybe didn't expect. > If you want to know the details of the advertised course you should likely > stress more the people offering it. It seems no one from this list > following the thread has attented the specific course (yet) to be of > further help on this. > > Francesca > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:49 AM > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Permaculture mysteries Re: [ECOLOG-L] [Be the Change] > Sustainability, Permaculture and Leadership > > Ecolog: > > I hope it is clear that I'm not out to gore Permaculture's ox; I am only > questioning some of its practices and style. > > I went to the website. It not only did not say up-front what the fees were > going to be and describe with any specificity what we, the unenlightened, > were to get for our money, I was unable to find this information anywhere > on the site. Apparently, one does not get to know what one is going to have > to pay until one registers. I am suspicious of such practices. I do not > want to be sucked in by warm and fuzzy sentiments only to discover that > there are surprises in store once I have signed up. I want to know what I > am signing up for, and I want more than vague generalities with respect to > where the "coursework" is going. > > All of the "testimonials" from various John and Jane Does did not leave a > positive impression in my mind; that sort of thing seems to me to be more > in the category of salesmanship. > > All of > the various responses did nothing to bring clarity, they consisted > primarily of more claims and links to other web sites/pages. I take that > sort of thing as patronizing. > > The idea of a forum like Ecolog is for individuals to express themselves > on issues of common interest, not to refer participants to supposed > authority. I still would be interested in knowing what the various seminars > cost in their entirety and a clear description of course content. I want to > hear from individuals, not just standard shibboleths. > > WT > -- Scott Creary, M.S. Entomology, ISA Certified Arborist IPM Specialist Phipps Conservatory and Botanical Gardens www.phipps.conservatory.org
