> Sorry, but your opinion is just that.
I said "without base matching" - that's what the AD5X "modifications"
are - base matching. Base matching eliminates the easy "use anywhere"
without and external tuner capability that is one of the "selling
points" of the 43 foot vertical.
My comments are not my opinion ... they are supported by several well
researched and documented studies of the 43 foot vertical - all of
which can be found on-line. Studies show more than 15 dB feedline
loss on 160 meters and more than 6 dB on 80 meters when the antenna
is unmatched. Similarly, basic modeling (also documented in the
on-line studies) shows take off angles of 40 degrees on 15 meters
and 55 degrees on 10 meters - both of which are far too high to
generally be useful.
Of course, facts and science have never been able to stand in the way
of marketing hype.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 3/9/2011 5:07 PM, w...@w5ov.com wrote:
> Joe,
>
> My 43' antenna works very well on 160 and 80 as I have reported. In fact,
> it works so well that those DX stations that I work with it are amazed -
> quite frankly so am I.
>
> Sorry, but your opinion is just that.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>
>
>>
>> > The 43' length is a convenient non-resonant length - nothing else.
>>
>> No, 43' is 5/8 wave on 20 meters (984/14.3*0.625 == 43). That is
>> the point (well, 0.64 wave if you want to be precise) that the
>> first lobe has maximum radiation in a vertical. That the 43' or
>> or 44' vertical happens to be generally non-resonant in all of the
>> HF bands is fortuitous but not necessarily by design.
>>
>>> I have a 43' vertical with one of AD5X's 160 and 80 matching systems
>>> at the base fed with an UN-UN and it works great.
>>
>> Without base matching and a decent ground system, the 43' vertical is
>> terribly inefficient on 160 and 80 meters (substantially less than
>> 1/4 wave and extremely reactive) due to very high SWR losses in any
>> practical feedline (using coax) length.
>>
>> One would be much better served to use two radiators, one longer than
>> 43' (perhaps 85 feet) for improved efficiency on 160/80 and one shorter
>> (perhaps 25 feet) to reduce the substantial amount of RF that is lost
>> at take-off angles above the critical angle on 15/12/10 meters, along
>> with an automatic tuner at the base of the antenna.
>>
>> An untuned (un-un fed) 43' vertical is the 21st century equivalent
>> of an Isoloop or Gotham vertical ... nothing but snake oil designed
>> to fool the unwary, those who don't understand electromagnetics, and
>> those who believe in something for nothing.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 3/8/2011 6:47 PM, w...@w5ov.com wrote:
>>> None of these old wive's tales are true.
>>>
>>> The 43' length is a convenient non-resonant length - nothing else.
>>>
>>> The balun was chosen originally because the 43' vertical was originally
>>> planned to have one or two elevated radials only (making it balanced),
>>> and
>>> it would load fine with a balun.
>>>
>>> The problems came to be when full-blown radial systems were attached and
>>> station grounds were connected to the radials, which again, were
>>> originally intended to be elevated - i.e.; not grounded. What this did
>>> was
>>> to short one side of the output of the balun to ground. So, when you
>>> ground the radials, an UN-UN is preferable and works very well.
>>>
>>> I have a 43' vertical with one of AD5X's 160 and 80 matching systems at
>>> the base fed with an UN-UN and it works great.
>>>
>>> I use it on all bands - 160 through 10m. Check out the ZL8X online log
>>> with my call to see how well it works.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Bob W5OV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've heard quite a few people use balun, when they meant impedence
>>>> transformer or unun.
>>>>
>>>> I heard somewhere (and the tapes have been erased) that the 43' length
>>>> came about
>>>> because it was the most economical length for a manufacturer to cut
>>>> stock
>>>> with the
>>>> least waste to meet shipping limitations.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>>>
>>>> On 3/8/2011 5:29 PM, David Herring wrote:
>>>>> Here's a follow-on question to the reflector...
>>>>>
>>>>> Vernon's set-up brings a question to mind. He says he's using a 4:1
>>>>> balun on his vertical. At first brush that seems counterintuitive,
>>>>> doesn't it? Isn't a vertical unbalanced? Certainly the coax is
>>>>> unbalanced. When you're mating an unbalanced feedline with an
>>>>> unbalanced antenna, wouldn't one be better off using an unun rather
>>>>> than
>>>>> a 4:1 balun?
>>>>>
>>>>> In further support of my line of questioning, I've read numerous,
>>>>> albeit
>>>>> anecdotal, reports of people being displeased with the performance of
>>>>> their vertical, particularly the untuned ones like Zero-Five for
>>>>> example. But when they add an unun they are then amazed at how the
>>>>> antenna allegedly "sprung to life."
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Dave AH6TD
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 8, 2011, at 6:20 AM, Vernon Mauery wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. I can see the S-meter go from 3-4 down with static down to
>>>>>> nothing with quieter static. My best guess is that I am not trying
>>>>>> the right times at the right places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to everyone for the help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Vernon N7OH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Ross Primrose N4RP<n...@aiko.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Does the received noise decrease when you disconnect the antenna?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73, Ross N4RP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/8/2011 1:06 AM, Vernon Mauery wrote:
>>>>>>>> At the risk of exposing what a n00b I am when it comes to HF, I
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>> need some help. I recently (last month) purchased a K3. First HF
>>>>>>>> radio I have owned. I got my license 2 years ago and have spent
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> of the time since playing with VHF. I have been trying to teach
>>>>>>>> myself CW and decided that it was time to step into the HF waters.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> studied, ogled, and dreamed of my ideal HF transceiver. I finally
>>>>>>>> found the K3 and having looked (at least a cursory glance) at all
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> others, I was sold. I saved my pennies and purchased. I also got
>>>>>>>> myself a 43' untuned vertical antenna, balun, and radial wires.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My setup: K3/100 has 100 feet of low loss 400 coax out to the 43
>>>>>>>> foot
>>>>>>>> vertical on the hill in my back yard. It has 8 25 foot radials and
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> 4:1 balun. The K3 has the KATU3, KPA3, KTCXO3-1, KFL3A-400, and
>>>>>>>> default 2.8KHz filters. I assembled it and did followed the
>>>>>>>> calibration instructions as well as I could. I think I got
>>>>>>>> everything, but obviously I missed something. Or maybe I just need
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> elmer to tell me what to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I cannot seem to find any signals that make the S meter go above a
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>> or 4. I have the RF gain turned up a fair ways (mostly to the
>>>>>>>> top),
>>>>>>>> and I can hear static. As I tune up some of the bands on SSB, I
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> hear a tone that changes higher in pitch as I tune up in frequency.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> have tried listening for CW, but I am hearing nothing as I scan
>>>>>>>> through the bands. I had a 10m horizontal dipole taped to my wall
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> a while until I found time to run the coax out to the back yard. I
>>>>>>>> had hoped that since it was resonant on the 10m band, maybe it
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be able to pick up something, but it was no better (or worse) than
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> vertical.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as I can tell, the radio seems to transmit. I can see the
>>>>>>>> power meter moving and the SWR meter moving. The ATU seems to be
>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>> to find acceptable settings on most of the bands with the vertical.
>>>>>>>> But I can't hear them. You can't work them if you can't hear them,
>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a desperate plea for help. Is it the radio or me? Please
>>>>>>>> have pity on the n00b and walk me through my first HF contact.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Vernon N7OH
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the
>>>>>>> minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired
>>>>>>> communications.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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