>The 'prohibition' also results in no requirement for warning notices to the >user – a 'shot in foot' result.
Article 18.2 2014/30/EC requires such a warning on the EUT itself if meant for Industrial The EU is rather undecided -as John says- on what is "Industrial", or is it "Heavy Industrial" and the generic standard for "heavy Industrial" refers to " Industrial" environment only, and even worse refers to the definition in CISPR11 for Industrial, a standard it is supposed to *guide* , instead to refer to. But of course EN 61000-6-2 is written by Cenelec , not by the European Commission. A smart way of circular reasoning. Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen Approvals manager ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment + Independent Consultancy Services + Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking according to EC-directives: - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC - Medical Devices 93/42/EC - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing + Education Web: www.cetest.nl (English) Phone : +31 10 415 24 26 ------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above. Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete the material from any computer. Thank you for your co-operation. From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday 19 October 2016 09:05 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes I'm not unsure. Class A is for heavy industry, powered from MV or higher, with no broadcast receivers likely within 30 m. The real difference between Europe and the Americas is that in Europe, there is a vain attempt to prohibit the use of Class A devices out of industrial areas, whereas in the Americas it is recognized that this can (fairly rarely) occur and requires the *user* to be warned accordingly. The attempt to prohibit is vain because the *user* is not addressed by the legislation, and unless actual interference occurs, the transgression passes unnoticed. The 'prohibition' also results in no requirement for warning notices to the user – a 'shot in foot' result. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 8:01 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Thanks all – at least I am not the only one unsure. I am trying to establish a set of criteria that I can ask our engineers and marketers that will determine the classification. A decision tree, if you will. This arose from a device that met the less stringent criteria, but not the more stringent and then what to do. To prevent the need to debate this topic over and over, I was hoping to establish a go forward approach. Ideally, that approach would be “design for both industrial AND non-industrial and be done with it.” However, other factors are at play than just my druthers. -Jamison From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 12:44 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes For Europe, the sources are the Generic standards, which are substantially consistent with CISPR 11. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 5:25 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes My understanding has always been based on the Class and Group designations in CISPR 11 / EN 55011 for ISM equipment (based on the 2009 edition): 5.3 Division into classes Class A equipment is equipment suitable for use in all establishments other than domestic and those directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies buildings used for domestic purposes. Class A equipment shall meet class A limits. Warning: Class A equipment is intended for use in an industrial environment. In the documentation for the user, a statement shall be included drawing attention to the fact that there may be potential difficulties in ensuring electromagnetic compatibility in other environments, due to conducted as well as radiated disturbances. Class B equipment is equipment suitable for use in domestic establishments and in establishments directly connected to a low voltage power supply network which supplies buildings used for domestic purposes. Class B equipment shall meet class B limits. The key in all of this is the source of power supply for the equipment. If the equipment is supplied from mains that are shared with domestic establishments, then it must meet Class B requirements IMO. If the equipment is intended for industrial use, i.e., Class A, where the power supply from the mains is not shared with domestic establishments, then Class A performance is acceptable. The deciding factor is the sharing of the supply with domestic establishments. If a location is fed from its own substation and there are no dwellings supplied from that substation, it’s an industrial location, and therefore Class A. Doug Nix d...@ieee.org +1 (519) 729-5704 On 18-Oct-16, at 08:44, Kortas, Jamison <jamison.kor...@ecolab.com> wrote: Good Morning, What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use. It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment). I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that those are what are typically followed in practice. I appreciate any thoughts. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
