My thoughts Michael , and this is not a strong point of mine so forgive technical ignorance please. I think a dual core to handle realtime on one and all other processes would be wonderful 1.5 or better ghz and iIthink ram is lacking in the bone and rpi . something like 4 gig would give us a great platform to network a shop and have adequate response time . Better video processing to help solve the gui issues and last more i/o for industrial applications , preferably running on fpga and modular like the mesa cards . Ultimately Michael i think they are exciting times and Moores law will eventually help us out . I see your point I think about fixing the warts, ( i have to admit that you have far more knowledge here than i do ) but yes the gui is agreed to be a resource hog and in the desktop we can plug in video cards to help. I am not certain the bbb or rpi have any upgrade able video interfaces. As a mastercam user I really do not need the axis gui and simply have not worked with my machine long enough to try others but I should think that the less graphical ones are going to use far less resources. I am trying to bring my machine up to a mechanical level that will justify more hardware and software experimentation . But this project gets addressed when time and money and lately health ( surgery on tues ) allow . I would like to get this thing functioning on a production level in a yr. the dell i have running it will be capable but something i could integrate into the column would be great. I am in no rush as money will not currently allow a bbb " upgrade " and i would also want to be assured that it would in fact be an upgrade. But concession needs to be made to the fact that pc s will not be around in 5 yrs . so i have to say I appreciate all of the communities effort moving forward on these issues and the porting to these platforms is at least showing that we are not standing still. Now the question I have is what are the other alternatives (with more power ) and what is the status of porting lcnc to them and where would we stand on the issues you and i have been discussing . And further i am just a user right now that uses his machine twice a month or so and Im not desperate for these solutions . iIam just keeping my ear to the rail so when it is time to leap I will know how high . Thanx for the input , and thanks to all for the time, wow i think i have said enough :)
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Michael Haberler <[email protected]>wrote: > Jeremy, > > Am 30.05.2013 um 12:36 schrieb jeremy youngs <[email protected]>: > > > i > > just wish the manufactureres would give us something with a little bit > more > > oomph than these bords have . * > > there are stronger alternatives > > second, and more important: where exactly should that 'oomph' go, and why? > > fact is: the realtime part of linuxcnc can run perfectly fine on even the > low end boards, including the interpreter as we are forced to do now; even > more so if supported in some way by underlying hardware; I am pretty sure > Charles PRU stepgen will outperform any soft stepper on a PC eventually, no > matter how much the operating system is massaged > > the drag factor comes in when you run user interfaces like Axis or > Gladevcp on the very same platform - and as you are forced to, given the > current architecture - which mandates you run the UI - and pretty fat ones > at that - on the same CPU as any realtime tasks; in any timings I have > taken the UI's have been by far the largest consumers of cycles and memory > of the whole setup, with the notable exception of emcweb (which lacks > generalized HAL access though) > > Now what is the answer to that question? throwing more 'oomph' at the > problem is 'more of the same' - but you'd still not able to use > alternatives like say touchpads or just a web browser to talk to the damn > thing > > the conclusion 'let's make these embedded boards better PC's so we can > continue to run LinuxCNC as it forces us to' isnt the one I think which > will lead to good results in the individual case as well as a prosperous > future for the project overall - to the contrary I think it is a bit of a > doomed strategy like tying the project fate to the fate of the desktop PC > > for me the conclusion is clear - we need to fix the warts which have crept > in and revert to a fully distributed setup which enables a more rational > slice-and-dice of functionality; just as it was in the original design, and > from which it has decayed into what it is now. A and we better to so > quickly, not in some years down the road. Any hopes to, say, make inroads > into the 3D printer community under this angle are just that, I think. > > this is also the reason why I do not invest any energy on making the > current user interfaces perform well on these platforms - the user > interfaces shouldnt be there to start with, and I take that as an incentive > to focus on the effort to move them out of the way > > -- > > just to be clear: I'm not at all critisizing you for the desire to have a > decent platform - everybody does and that wasnt my point; I am just taking > your note as an opportunity to point to one of the underlying issues to > which there is more than one answer, and the best one is clearly not > "business as usual" > > > unfortunately I have the impression this issue is completely off the radar > of the LinuxCNC developer community, which seems to be largely content to > run PC boards as long as those are available to run their machines > > it might just be the whole effort is mistaken by some to mean 'a LinuxCNC > desktop, just smaller and cheaper and therefore I dont need to bother' > which would be missing the bigger picture > > - Michael > > > > > > > i am sure though that we will continue to > > see very good development in these boards . hopefully the manufacturers > > will get to a useable standar for i/o and mainatin an architecture that > > will keep us from having to develop every year for new hardware . to me > it > > seems a though the atom lasted quite a while and a similar bord should be > > marketable. but i digress as i know off noone on these lists that is a > > manufacturer so i surely must be preaching to the choir :) lol* > > * > > * > > > > > > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Charles Steinkuehler < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >> Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> On 5/29/2013 11:05 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote: > >>> Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely > >>> to drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts. > >> > >> Low power is important when you put the computer in a sealed box to > >> keep it from getting sprayed with metal chips and coolant, and you > >> have no fans to avoid one of the most common parts to fail. > >> > >> - -- > >> Charles Steinkuehler > >> [email protected] > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) > >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > >> > >> iEYEARECAAYFAlGnI7sACgkQLywbqEHdNFz/VwCfeUAyJi2u1eW+9XOdLZZ5irUJ > >> YPQAoLgOo+6Nk11Zp0MPyxE1AWoFl1hs > >> =F94a > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET > >> Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. > >> Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with <2% overhead > >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Emc-users mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to > keep > > and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new > > government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of > > arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being > > understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the > depredations > > of a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March > > 9, 2007 > > > > > > > > jeremy youngs > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET > > Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. > > Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with <2% overhead > > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 > > _______________________________________________ > > Emc-users mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET > Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. > Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with <2% overhead > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government." - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March 9, 2007 jeremy youngs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with <2% overhead Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
