Well said. I see the same both in Europe and North America in all the various fields of industry I deal with.
On January 25, 2023 2:11:20 p.m. PST, Chris Albertson <albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: >The root of the issue here is that LCNC is not a product. It is a >development environment where a person can, with some effort, develop a >product. > >Then the problem is that as a group, machinists tend not to have computer >skills or much interest in learning computer skills. What we see on this >email list is the one-in-the-thousand exception. Most machinists just want >to make parts and not futz with the tools, especially if the tools involve >computers. > >We are still in a transition period. Today most machinists are older men >who actually hate and resent CNC. They spent a lifetime learning to turn >handwheels and now some voodoo-magic boxes they don't understand completely >outclasses their hard-won skill. The new class of machinist are >different. They are more like engineers then blue color factory >machinists. These new guys see g-code as the product and parts as the >byproduct and most of this new generation is not used to making anything by >hand. > >We are still in the transitional period where we see a mix of the old guys >who have adapted to new ways, new people who have never made anything by >hand and the few of us on this list who actualy like to mess with tools. > >Torrmach did a good thing by turning LCNC into a marketable product. > >On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 1:30 PM John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com> >wrote: > >> Hi Todd, >> First of all that LCNC can run 8 head/spindle gang... machine has nothing >> to do with the subject line. >> >> And the grumble I often hear from people who have attempted or looked into >> LinuxCNC for their system is nicely summarized by your statement: >> >> " Linuxcnc isn't for everyone. The companies willing to support and hold >> the hand of a green noob who isn't interested in learning anything, charge >> accordingly." >> >> Or as generally interpreted by most: "F Off if you are a green noob and >> can't figure out LCNC or Linux" >> >> Personally I think the theme of the original post and conversation was how >> easy is it to create a turnkey system that runs Path Pilot on non Tormach >> Hardware. >> >> IMHO, a lot more people would be interested in LCNC if there was a simple >> easy to follow, step by step method of setting up a 4 axis mill. The >> menu's for setting up motors etc. in AXIS either for the parallel port >> (almost extinct) or the MESA boards is really good but doesn't go far >> enough. >> >> There are a few youtube videos out there that show how to select motors >> based on mass of the system and acme or ball screw or belt reduction. But >> the learning curve is steep and is just easier with systems that are not >> LCNC. >> >> John >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com] >> > Sent: January-24-23 11:45 AM >> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines >> > >> > I'd like see the retrofit CNC package on the market (other than >> Linuxcnc) that can run an 8 head/spindle gang >> > router, with individual Z axis and VFD control for each spindle. I'm >> sorry but freedom of customization comes >> > at the cost of complexity. If you want the freedom to be able to >> use/run almost anything, you're going to >> > have to know something about both the hardware and software. You want >> simple buy some simple 4 axis all >> > in one stepper box and plug it in. >> > >> > Linuxcnc isn't for everyone. The companies willing to support and hold >> the hand of a green noob who isn't >> > interested in learning anything, charge accordingly. >> > >> > Todd Zuercher >> > P. Graham Dunn Inc. >> > 630 Henry Street >> > Dalton, Ohio 44618 >> > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 1:39 PM >> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> > >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines >> > >> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. >> > >> > > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] >> > > > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote: >> > > > >> > > > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale >> > > > adoption of LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI. >> > > >> > > There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are >> _all_ terrible? >> > > >> > >> > I'll jump in on this one. They are _all_ great and they are _all_ >> terrible. >> > >> > Imagine your average home shop machinist. His kids are finally out the >> door and he's at an income level >> > where he's got his lathe with a DRO and he just bought a small mill. He >> starts looking at CNC. >> > >> > At work and at home he uses Windows. And he's bought into the free >> Fusion 360 con job for CAD/CAM and is >> > now looking at how to add CNC to his mill. >> > >> > OMG. What a hodge podge of systems. >> > >> > So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available >> including even AliExpress which has CNC boxes >> > for $300. >> > >> > Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube >> videos become his other source of >> > information and education. The most interesting ones appear to be ones >> with 10's of thousands of >> > subscribers that in fact are really long mostly to have multiple >> advertisers. But at the time he's not aware that >> > the videos are short on information, long on con for supporting lots of >> advertising. >> > >> > IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the >> poster is there to monetize than to >> > actually provide useful help. How interesting to watch a milling >> cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth >> > making chips. Oh, and now another advertisement. >> > >> > So someone on a forum recommends MESA. >> > >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.mesanet.com%2Findex.php%3F >> > >> route%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26path%3D83_84%26product_id%3D215&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgra >> > hamdunn.com >> %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0% >> > >> 7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL >> > >> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QsuaNDdgukaAklsVBzraskOqkJrgDYP%2B7 >> > e9BcWa62nI%3D&reserved=0 >> > Hmm. Out of stock. And even if it were, there's no diagram like the >> ACORN one. So no idea where to start... >> > >> > Oh but then someone suggests >> > >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.mesanet.com%2Findex.php%3F >> > >> route%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26product_id%3D381%26search%3D7i92&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgra >> > hamdunn.com >> %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0% >> > >> 7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL >> > >> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lNSWiCwuqqIMsYjHAEfR9JqJAjsWNK9DeF >> > 9GsKztVJg%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > Now I need to wire to it. A suggestion comes up for two of these and >> cheap too. >> > >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F33 >> > 015669728.html&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com >> %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a697 >> > >> 7%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb >> > >> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7 >> > C&sdata=LclFcxiqe05h7ZMNmrFS3%2Fri1wQ7cRfBl1KFG0z51OQ%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > Next motors and power supplies. What to buy? People rave about these >> new step-servos. One brand in >> > particular. But what size? Direct coupled or with belts and pulleys? >> > >> > So back to the internet and youtube. Ah, this guy has a mill like >> mine. He used the Leadshine step servos and >> > ACORN. Ordered, installed as per the youtube video. Making chips. >> > >> > And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so >> LCNC user interfaces to use. >> > >> > The above is I think the typical thought processes. >> > >> > I'm still using AXIS. Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to >> figure out whether I should spend $400 for a >> > touch screen HDMI 21" screen or some other user interface. Really miss >> the MACROs from MACH3 though. I >> > think that's what's called the conversational interface on Tormach? >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Emc-users mailing list >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> > >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistin >> > fo%2Femc- >> > users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com >> %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C57585 >> > >> 44c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ >> > >> WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=R3 >> > B7SVuYgzAgLRBVbhziV0q1g1QJi0lI1vbmlsoWvsA%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Emc-users mailing list >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > > >-- > >Chris Albertson >Redondo Beach, California > >_______________________________________________ >Emc-users mailing list >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
