The root of the issue here is that LCNC is not a product. It is a development environment where a person can, with some effort, develop a product.
Then the problem is that as a group, machinists tend not to have computer skills or much interest in learning computer skills. What we see on this email list is the one-in-the-thousand exception. Most machinists just want to make parts and not futz with the tools, especially if the tools involve computers. We are still in a transition period. Today most machinists are older men who actually hate and resent CNC. They spent a lifetime learning to turn handwheels and now some voodoo-magic boxes they don't understand completely outclasses their hard-won skill. The new class of machinist are different. They are more like engineers then blue color factory machinists. These new guys see g-code as the product and parts as the byproduct and most of this new generation is not used to making anything by hand. We are still in the transitional period where we see a mix of the old guys who have adapted to new ways, new people who have never made anything by hand and the few of us on this list who actualy like to mess with tools. Torrmach did a good thing by turning LCNC into a marketable product. On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 1:30 PM John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote: > Hi Todd, > First of all that LCNC can run 8 head/spindle gang... machine has nothing > to do with the subject line. > > And the grumble I often hear from people who have attempted or looked into > LinuxCNC for their system is nicely summarized by your statement: > > " Linuxcnc isn't for everyone. The companies willing to support and hold > the hand of a green noob who isn't interested in learning anything, charge > accordingly." > > Or as generally interpreted by most: "F Off if you are a green noob and > can't figure out LCNC or Linux" > > Personally I think the theme of the original post and conversation was how > easy is it to create a turnkey system that runs Path Pilot on non Tormach > Hardware. > > IMHO, a lot more people would be interested in LCNC if there was a simple > easy to follow, step by step method of setting up a 4 axis mill. The > menu's for setting up motors etc. in AXIS either for the parallel port > (almost extinct) or the MESA boards is really good but doesn't go far > enough. > > There are a few youtube videos out there that show how to select motors > based on mass of the system and acme or ball screw or belt reduction. But > the learning curve is steep and is just easier with systems that are not > LCNC. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com] > > Sent: January-24-23 11:45 AM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines > > > > I'd like see the retrofit CNC package on the market (other than > Linuxcnc) that can run an 8 head/spindle gang > > router, with individual Z axis and VFD control for each spindle. I'm > sorry but freedom of customization comes > > at the cost of complexity. If you want the freedom to be able to > use/run almost anything, you're going to > > have to know something about both the hardware and software. You want > simple buy some simple 4 axis all > > in one stepper box and plug it in. > > > > Linuxcnc isn't for everyone. The companies willing to support and hold > the hand of a green noob who isn't > > interested in learning anything, charge accordingly. > > > > Todd Zuercher > > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > > 630 Henry Street > > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 1:39 PM > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines > > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > > > > > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > > > > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > > > > > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale > > > > adoption of LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI. > > > > > > There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are > _all_ terrible? > > > > > > > I'll jump in on this one. They are _all_ great and they are _all_ > terrible. > > > > Imagine your average home shop machinist. His kids are finally out the > door and he's at an income level > > where he's got his lathe with a DRO and he just bought a small mill. He > starts looking at CNC. > > > > At work and at home he uses Windows. And he's bought into the free > Fusion 360 con job for CAD/CAM and is > > now looking at how to add CNC to his mill. > > > > OMG. What a hodge podge of systems. > > > > So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available > including even AliExpress which has CNC boxes > > for $300. > > > > Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube > videos become his other source of > > information and education. The most interesting ones appear to be ones > with 10's of thousands of > > subscribers that in fact are really long mostly to have multiple > advertisers. But at the time he's not aware that > > the videos are short on information, long on con for supporting lots of > advertising. > > > > IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the > poster is there to monetize than to > > actually provide useful help. How interesting to watch a milling > cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth > > making chips. Oh, and now another advertisement. > > > > So someone on a forum recommends MESA. > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.mesanet.com%2Findex.php%3F > > > route%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26path%3D83_84%26product_id%3D215&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgra > > hamdunn.com > %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0% > > > 7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL > > > CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QsuaNDdgukaAklsVBzraskOqkJrgDYP%2B7 > > e9BcWa62nI%3D&reserved=0 > > Hmm. Out of stock. And even if it were, there's no diagram like the > ACORN one. So no idea where to start... > > > > Oh but then someone suggests > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.mesanet.com%2Findex.php%3F > > > route%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26product_id%3D381%26search%3D7i92&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgra > > hamdunn.com > %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0% > > > 7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL > > > CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lNSWiCwuqqIMsYjHAEfR9JqJAjsWNK9DeF > > 9GsKztVJg%3D&reserved=0 > > > > Now I need to wire to it. A suggestion comes up for two of these and > cheap too. > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F33 > > 015669728.html&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a697 > > > 7%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb > > > GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7 > > C&sdata=LclFcxiqe05h7ZMNmrFS3%2Fri1wQ7cRfBl1KFG0z51OQ%3D&reserved=0 > > > > Next motors and power supplies. What to buy? People rave about these > new step-servos. One brand in > > particular. But what size? Direct coupled or with belts and pulleys? > > > > So back to the internet and youtube. Ah, this guy has a mill like > mine. He used the Leadshine step servos and > > ACORN. Ordered, installed as per the youtube video. Making chips. > > > > And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so > LCNC user interfaces to use. > > > > The above is I think the typical thought processes. > > > > I'm still using AXIS. Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to > figure out whether I should spend $400 for a > > touch screen HDMI 21" screen or some other user interface. Really miss > the MACROs from MACH3 though. I > > think that's what's called the conversational interface on Tormach? > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistin > > fo%2Femc- > > users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C040364ad9343477cf2fb08dafe3a6977%7C57585 > > > 44c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638101824085494729%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJ > > > WIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=R3 > > B7SVuYgzAgLRBVbhziV0q1g1QJi0lI1vbmlsoWvsA%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
