Yes, when I mentioned Lamentations, I meant the Hebrew Bible. Old. Grieving for ones city, ones polis, ones people. Also, it seems that this is *not* where you were going, Monika, a sense of grief over ones own possible complicity, real or imagined... remorse.

On 10/4/12 5:55 PM, Monika Weiss wrote:
While aware of some of the lamentations explored by artists such as Martha Graham (who is not my favorite although I have a great respect for her) -- what I am working towards is a connection with the older, before now, before any specific time, lamentation. My dancer actually took me to Wender's film about Pina Baush last Spring, and while aware of her name I never really knew of this work until quite recently (maybe even Alan mentioned her to me a long time ago) but it took a person whose body literally inhabited my work 'Sustenazo (Lament II)' to "discover" this work and a feeling of connection.


On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:

which "Lamentations" are you refering to? (not Martha Graham's Lamentation?)

Book of Lamentations in English

All Sandy and I are/were on about, I think, is the silence and the obdurate that occurs in relaton to severe pain; I'm thinking for example of my mother shortly before her death, when she had been anesthetized to alleviate her suffering in the hospice. The silence is also the silence at the heart of the signifier; the signifier is both suture and broken suture, covering and dis/covering pain, naming it for those who are suffering, who can no longer hear the name, who are no longer with us, coffin or not - when my father died, there were issues at the cemetary about the burial of ashes.

- Alan

Alan schreibt:

public lament and gardening

On Thu, 4 Oct 2012, Maria Damon wrote:

Is there then (I'm sort of assuming the answer is yes, but asking anyway in
order to make it part of the fabric of the conversation) a way in which
lamentation is also critique as well as community self-constitution, as in

Maria, I wonder what sort of critique would be possible? Lamentations
seems to bridge the political and the obdurate. When pain becomes
overwhelming, silence is at the core and the signifier dissolves; I think
this is also the core of anguish. One is left speechless. On the other
hand, how much clarity is necessary for political or 'rational' thought?
In an odd way this also brings up mathematical thinking - which, from an
outsider point-of-view, seems based on the manipulation of symbols, but
from within is much more of clouded movements with indeterminate focus
(see Jacques Hadamard). Thinking itself, in other words, may well have
less content than its representations, and certainly its representations
in virtual worlds, where everything, one way or another, is determinate
and rationalized on a pixel-by-pixel level.

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