On March 5, 2018 12:20 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. <wlt...@obsidian-studios.com>
> On Mon, 05 Mar 2018 14:15:03 -0500
> Cedric Bail ced...@ddlm.me wrote:
> > On March 4, 2018 9:27 AM, William L. Thomson Jr.
> > wlt...@obsidian-studios.com wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:33:17 +0100
> > > Vincent Torri vincent.to...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I don't think we are talking about the same size of organization
> > here :-) Our current cost is a few thousands dollars per decade as
> > our main cost has been renewing our server when they get to old.
> Why I provided information on Gnome as well. Just the same without a
> plan to grow you likely will not. Without showing how donations can
> help further the project. There is little reason to donate. The more
> people can see their donations at work, the more they will donate.
It is unlikely we can get the amount of money needed to pay a developer or
more. So our use of the money will continue to be for server/infrastructure
maintenance and conference help. If you do have an idea on how to get enough
money to do more, I will be interested in your idea.
> > I see no benefit in banking and even less in American banking.
> The dollar has long been the global currency, since like 1944.
Have you tried to transfer dollar around the world ? I have been and I can tell
you it is a pain. And from all the country I have been in, the US banking
system is clearly the one behind.
> > With european banks, you can allow direct money transfer easily with
> > SEPA. In the USA, this is not possible.
> There are numerous ways to send money for free with direct money
> transfer. PayPal is one, Google Wallet, and most banks have their own
They are usually not cross border working at all. PayPal has been a pain for
myself as you can not change your account country once it is created. As soon
as we are talking international, this things are creating a lot of friction.
> these days. Though that is limited to within the US. Like SEPA is
> limited to EU banks.
Technically not, but in most country direct out of country transfer require you
to go to the bank physically to do the transfer and anything above a few
thousand dollar will be heavily scrutinized. Some country even forbid their own
citizen to send money above a certain amount to an account that is not owned by
them on the other side. So if you go to your bank, in the US, you can do a
transfer by using the information provided on a SEPA bank account. Now that
being said, I find it highly impractical, because you have to go a bank branch,
we will deter people from doing it.
And we are talking small amount here, so nothing big enough to justify any of
the international mess that bank are creating.
> > As the main use case are : keeping > a stash of money that doesn't
> > disappear completely over time,
> Which is why IMHO you want a actual bank. Not digital currency, that
> could be hacked, login lost, etc and no recovery. No customer service,
> fraud protection etc.
Sure this are drawback. Still the amount of money we are talking is small and
will be spread among many of this account. What you see as a login problem
(being lost or hacked), is something that I do see as an easier way to transmit
control of the account to someone that will have time to care about. People
come and go, every time you do have to deal with that with paper work accross
the world, it is a serious pain. With cryptocurrency, we have a serie of files
that are encrypted with gpg. We can quickly add or remore a key. Sure nothing
fancy like multi signature account and stuff at the moment, but that will do
for the amount of money we have to handle at this point. If we start to be
bigger, we can look at how multi million company run their cryptocurrency
account... No rush.
> > ability to get money from all over the world and to send it all over
> > the world too.
> This has yet to be an issue for Gentoo, which does operate globally and
> collects funds globally. Though they have never been accounted for
> properly nor proper filings with IRS, etc.
I would believe that Gentoo is a bigger project than E. This means a lot more
people to deal with this. The French legislation for an association is pretty
light in term of accounting and cost to run it. The only draw back at the
moment is how we handle money via traditional bank which create friction and
additional unecessary work. If we were to receive large amount of money from
corporation, it could be something that would justify having a real bank
account, but at the moment I do not see that happening.
> > None of this will be helped by having a capitalone account I think.
> Assumptions, the proof its Capital One has worked fine for Gentoo since
> 2008, that is almost a decade now... Though money comes in via PayPal.
> > Cryptocurrency do solve that with the cons of having some swing on
> > the value
> That is a major freaking con.... The volatility makes it good for
> investment and speculation. You are insane to buy anything with
> crypto currency. Only if you like severely overpaying for stuff.
You do realize that the dollar has lost 15% of its value against euros over
last year and is likely due to continue ? That if you do not have a large
amount of money in your bank account, their will be a continuous stream of
small fee showing up that will dry it ? Basically we are talking something that
will loose/gain random value quickly vs something that will eventually depleat
your account completely.
> > and add the benefit of transparency as anyone can watch
> > the wallet.
> Who provides customer service? Fraud protection? Lost password?
> Which crypto currency? It is great in theory, but in practical reality.
Have you ever had to deal with that when you are not in the country where the
bank account is ? We are all over the world and moving all the time. We are
talking small amount spread over many currency.
> It has a very long way to go. Like how you go from crypto to real
> currency. Not everyone uses crypto. Some places may still require a
> check. How do you cut a check from crypto currency? Not to mention like
> Visa/MC ATM cards for purchases, etc. Few places allow checkout with
> crypto currency.
I think you are also missing the way we do handle the money. We do reimburse
people. The association doesn't pay directly for the server parts, or people
tickets/hotels. We only send money to other account to reimburse fully or
partially the cost. We do not need to pay any commercial entity directly.
> > > > It is also a good time to thanks OSU Open Source Lab and
> > > > Fondation Free.fr for their help over the years in hosting our
> > > > infrastructure : https://osuosl.org/ and
> > > > https://www.fondation-free.fr/.
> > >
> > > Nice thing about them, you do not really have to worry about them
> > > deciding not to host or sponsor. That can be an issue at times, it
> > > happened with others in the past with sponsored hosting providers.
> > They have been helping us for over a decade now. They are on two
> > differents continent and have been super helpful. I don't see any
> > urgency/logical reason of moving out.
> I assume your talking about free.fr. If you mean OSUOSL. I am not aware
> of them having another facility on another continent.
Free.fr is our location in Europe. OSUOSL is in the USA.
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