On 11/21/2012 07:26 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:30:42 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > <[email protected]> said: > >> Ideas: >> >> - About -> inside settings, doesn't need to be so highlighted as the main >> menu. I'd say rename "settings" so we can use it for more than just that, >> it's a place holder for other stuff of enlightenment. > > renaming it is not a good idea... where do people find settings them? settings > is one of the better bits of the menu. changing it just because you wish to > get rid of the enlightenment entry is overall becoming worse than better. > >> - Restart/Exit E: again, this is just for E17 test, so bad for end-users. >> I've mentioned Xephyr but indeed you might forget to grab and the shortcut >> will go to outside E17 and problems will happen. What about doing it for >> Everything? Then you see where you'll type the action and it's clear. You >> can name them "e-restart" and "e-exit" commands. > > i'm sure not going to do all this work just to remove a menu, that to date has > not caused any issues i know of. i've asked a few times now for real info on > issues it's caused - real datapoints. but unless there is another viable and > sane way of doing these things - they stay. doing some minor re-labelling is > doable. maybe moving a menu item here and there, but now we're talking of work > that REALLY doesn't need to be done - there are much more important things to > do. :) > >> In the mood of refactoring the menus... if we merge Enlightenment + >> Settings (maybe call it Enlightenment?), we can remove the "Desktop" from > > settings includes stuff unrelated to e at all - see the system and preferences > tabs that pull in standard settings tools. > >> main menu as it's not as useful (menu to change desktop is not that common, >> add/configure shelves and gadgets are more like configuration that you do >> once a year, show/hide windows can go under Windows main menu entry). > > so its in a submenu... that's why its in a submenu. its a single entry in the > main menu for "general desktop controls". if it was inside the main menu - > i'd totally agree. > > please read up about the latest windows 8 criticisms. you're going the exact > same direction. you're on a head-long run into trying to remove as much as you > can, and in the process you hurt discoverability (and usability) and the > people > who don't know the key bindings etc. etc. etc. - everything even vaguely > useful > or used even a few times SHOULD be in a menu - even if it's not used much. in > fact we currently have too FEW things in menus. we've removed way too much. > people need to be able to find the thing they want without knowing magic > gestures, invisible click regions, or obscure keybindings etc. - the main menu > is just that. it's a central point of control that is very fast to find (start > gadget or click anywhere on the desktop - probably one of the first things a > person does when presented with a new blank wm/screen). this menu should > provide a easy starting point for a user to discover more and access the > things > they need or want. preferably nothing should be more than 2 or 3 clicks/jumps > away (but reality is that we have so many options, features etc. that we just > can't sensibly manage that without a menu-from-hell). > > i fully support the streamlining and improving of menus. agreed, but removing > stuff is something that should be done only as a very last resort. > re-organizing - sure, but at this stage i sure don't want to spend the time > re-organizing the main menu. modules DEPEND on existing hook points to insert > items - re-orgs affect all of those. > >> As for "Windows" i dislike it and shouldn't be that useful... but the >> "cleanup windows" and the action to recover lost windows are indeed >> useful... but likely the DM should avoid losing the windows instead of add >> them to a menu? Anyway, this one i see more reasoning to keep. > > it happens that apps ask to place their windows off the screen - and e honors > that. in the case of things like "guake" they legitimately want a window off > the > screen so they can slide it in (yes - i know. this is a hack, and should be > part of the wm and quickaccess, but apps will persist in doing these things > themselves). if you ignore such requests you then break such apps, so reality > is... in order to not break some apps, windows can become lost - when apps try > remember their position, and you changed resolution/monitors since (x11amp > used > to love doing this), and you had it bottom-right, and now it asks for a > position off the screen.. and you can't get to the window. that menu item > exists because of real world problems and we can try as we might - we either > break app a or break app b. the menu is the solution to when things break. if > we could actually modify the apps to ensure none of them do stupid things like > this - we'd have a good solution... but we can't :) > > also fyi - the windows menu is there because most wm's in x11 have had such a > thing, and i highly suggest we don't make the gnome 3 mistake of forgetting > our > roots in favor of chasing some userbase that may never come. it also serves > the > purpose of discoverability - it's EASY to find a list of windows and access > them without the need for keybindings or a shelf, which makes some users > really > happy as they want a "clean uncluttered desktop" and the menu is only called > up > when requested...
+1 As a user, I say keep it. There is no harm done in having some redundancy in the menus. I have found each of those menu options "Desktop" and "Windows" useful from time to time. Even the "Enlightenment" menu has been of use to me to determine the version of e I am running and to restart e by using only the mouse. I haven't found any use for the Enlightenment -> Theme, but there is no harm in having it there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
