On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 19:22:06 -0800 Marc MERLIN <marc_...@merlins.org> said:

> On Fri, Feb 02, 2018 at 06:13:50PM +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > > So just to be clear, they're going to stop asking E to remove the title
> > > bar? If so, great.
> > 
> > the gtk3-nocsd thing makes that happen.
> Sure, but it's a hack. I expect it to break eventually, wouldn't you?
> In other words, it works today, but I'm uncomfortable that E doesn't
> support this natively and I'm afraid the hack will stop working one day.
> > > But either way, E is the most configurable window manager on the planet
> > > I'm pretty sure, so it should really have a way for me to ignore an app
> > > with broken directives that work against what I want and need.
> > 
> > the problem is the app still draws whatever it wants inside and that ends up
> > looking broken when it also then draws shadows etc. assuming it is
> > borderless. it's asking to have somethnig look really broke. the nocsd
> > preload thing is a much better.
> I agree that the hack makes things look ok, but I also remember E
> allowing me to draw a border and putting a 2nd title bar around
> google-chrome back it was trying to be borderless for a while
> (thankfully it stopped that a while ago).
> So, I had 2 sets of minimize/maximize/close buttons. That was really not
> a big deal.
> I wanted the E title bar so that I can double click on it and collapse
> (roll up) the window into the title bar.
> Without a forced E title bar, I have no way to do this, and I get very
> sad ;)
> > i can, but i think it's the wrong solution for your problem, and in general
> > i think its the wrong solution too.
> It would be a user override for users who care and use cases that
> mandate it. If it's not vizually perfect, no a huge deal.
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2018 at 06:34:14PM +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
> > > Would you please consider re-allowing control of the menubar/border
> > > even if the app says otherwise?
> > 
> > also FYI you want to undo fixes to bug reports:
> > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T1963
> > 
> > so eithr you are unhappy or other people are unhappy.... and 
> > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T1940
> > where you'll find a screenshot of exactly what will happen if you start
> > having 2 borders. a window that looks totally wrong. 2 titlebars with a
> > shadow area around the inner area.
> Forgive me if I suck, but I can't see the screenshots in the 2nd bug and
> the first bug gives me
> https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-54a3d78d5c42f0.94186667.jpg which
> seems like a broken link?


that one. that is the reason why i think this is totally the wrong path. the
evince window in the middle with an e titlebar and the CSD shadows and titlebar
inside of it. that is what you'd get without the nocsd thing. both are hacks.
the nocsd hack is a better hack.

> > you're going to have to convince other people don't like this happening that
> > being able to have this happen is a good thing. if we allow you to set a
> > border on borderless windows like gtk ones oyu end up with the above result
> > which is far worse than gtk3-nocsd.
> Why would they care? It would be a non default option. E would restore
> the "set border style" option on those windows (where it is currently
> hidden) and let me change the border if I choose to. How would that make
> anyone unhappy since they'd have to explicitely ask for it?

because i have to go through and fix up a bunch of "frame offset" handling too
that handles hints that tell e what the shadow offsets are to the real frame on
the fly based on border style chose, undo the blocking of choosing that allows
you to shoot yourself in the foot and create the above unintended rendering
etc. ... and that'd bother people - me included, that it allows foot-shooting
where there is a better alternative solution like the nocsd preload.

> > your issue in the end lies with gtk/gnome and their design choices. as i
> > mentioned... you won't escape those as time goes on. in wayland it's CSD
> > anyway. and that's the future everyone is moving towards. you'll find it
> > harder and harder to fight this, and we will too and it just won't be worth
> > the effort.
> Fair point. And how do I get double click roll up there?

you ask the gtk devs to support this. you move to wayland and you won't have it
anyway and everyone including us is heading in that direction. x is already
being considered the "old world" and it works solidly, but it's not really
worth investing a LOT of effort in anymore. :)

> Thanks,
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems ....
>                                       .... what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/                         | PGP
> 1024R/763BE901

------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com

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