Paul: I like your insights on the value of thinsulate.
Russ -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, Jan 3, 2010 4:17 pm Subject: Re: [ENTS] Re: Cold is good James, I used Danner boots for most winter hiking. They used to all be merican-made, now only some of the most expensive models are. I use Sorel tyle LaCrosse Icekings for really cold weather only, since the removable iner boots are bigger and clumsier than thinsulate insulated boots. The ubber traps too much sweat in the lowers and holds water if it gets wet and he felt soaks it up so that you have to change them to dry them out. ore-tex thinsulate boots will dry themselves out if you have snug moisture icking socks and proper fit with the boot with not too much slack space round your foot. If you don't "overdress" your feet and use synthetic ocks and lighter more breathable boots, then they don't get wet. I highly ecommend Wigwam socks formerly called Ingenius but now called Fusion brand hich are multiple layer synthetics that wick feet dryer than conventional ocks. My feet are warmer and dryer with those than with any other ombination that I have tested over the years. Our bogs freeze over up ere, so surface water is not normally a footwear issue in winter around ere. Paul ---- Original Message ----- rom: "James Parton" <[email protected]> o: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected]> ent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:49 PM ubject: [ENTS] Re: Cold is good uss, I like your recommendations, especially on the Sorel boots, in which I ust looked up. They look like good winter boots with well above verage ratings. On the Sorels that have the rubber bottoms have you ver had the rubber to crack or split? I had a pair of rubber bottomed oots and that is exactly what happened, plus they froze my feet off ven with the 400gr Thinsulate insulation. Dad had a pair of rubber- ottoms that split as well. My current two pairs of boots are Herman Survivors. Back in the 1980's S was a very credible and fairly expensive boot. Wal-Mart aquired the ompany in the early 2000s and they are now no longer made in the USA. hey still have some decent boots but are getting worse year by year nd their selection of good outdoor hiking/hunting boots is becoming ess. I cannot even find the style I have in my hiking boots that I ave by them anymore. I have had them for six years and walked the rap outta them and they still have lots of wear left. On my insulated ermans, they have 400gr Thinsulate and have done well so far. I have ot tried them much in really cold weather though. One thing is for ure. They are waterproof. I slogged around in the muddy water of ongaree Swamp last year measuring cypress knees without a leak! James Parton n Jan 3, 10:31 am, [email protected] wrote: Paul: I, like you very much enjoy extreme cold ....there is something perversely enjoyable about being outside at temps close to zero or below with a gentle wind that feels like a laser on your cheeks. As I've gotten older and reached the point where I am almost always working alone, I no longer go out for more than six or eight hours in the woods if the temperature isn't going to get above zero. I agree about layering and how you mix them is so incredibly important. The general availability of good mixed material boots like Sorels with removable felts makes many aspects of extreme weather much more enjoyable today than 30 or 40 years ago. I'd like to offer a tip for heavy physical effort and perspiration in extreme cold weather. In almost any circumstance where I am going to climb up a big mountain or expose myself to a substantial period of serious effort in very cold temperatures, I'll carry a spare T-shirt. At the point where I decide that the period of most severe effort has ended I will immediately stop in as calm a point as possible and strip down my top layers down to bare skin and take off the wettest bottommost layer of my shirts and completely dress back up with a dry shirt on the bottom. Such a change has always been refreshing and nearly always prevents me from developing a chill. Also, if I plan it carefully and I am able to make the wardrobe change before my body starts to recover from the strain of the climb and begin cooling off I have an extremely good chance of remaining comfortable at whatever the temperature is for several hours. One question, for everyone who spends a lot of time in the woods during the coldest part of winter....have you noticed that there is a time in the afternoon when something changes to make the air suddenly "feel" colder. In Western Massachusetts during January I usually found that time to be between 3:15 and 3:30 on the coldest days. Other people were the first to point this change out to me and it seems to be most readily noticeable in forested locations that are on north or east facing areas (out of any sun). Russ -----Original Message----- From: Paul Jost <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [ENTS] Cold is good Bob, As I get older, I also have reduced tolerance for the cold. The key is to have proper clothing and to keep moving. Conventional cold weather gear is woefully inadequate. It is a significant investment to outfit one's self with the proper clothing. From years of deer hunting, moving slowly or not at all for several hours at a time in subzero weather, I have evolved a clothing arrangement that allows me to do so relatively comfortably. Few people that I have come across in winter are dressed in winter clothing other than what is available in the typical chain store or department store. It's good for urban living but not rural stomping. Even most hunting clothing traps too much moisture. My cold weather midyear and outerwear, boots and socks come mostly from Cabala's, thermal underwear and glove liners from REI, glove-mitts and knit caps from anyone that has them. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [ENTS] Cold is good Paul, I salute you my friend. I never thought about the dvantages as you have described them. However, as one ages, tolerance to cold diminishes. At least, that is true in my case. I am becoming a real wuss. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Jost" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 1:38:21 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [ENTS] Cold is good I disagree. The best time to search some sites is when it is below zero, as long as the wind is nearly calm. About 10 years ago, I spent a three day weekend in fresh snow in the Cathedral Pines and Giant Pine Groves in the Nicolet National Forest. It never got warmer than -10F and was mostly -15 to -20F. The cold weather kept all people out of the woods (except for one individual on the December bird count survey day) and the fresh snow allowed me to track a real viewable grid pattern through the entire Cathedral Pine grove without having to refer to a GPS the whole time. This freed up my hands and eyes for quick on the fly rough-estimation scanning through the grove. The lack of other people due to the cold allowed me to refer to my footsteps in the snow for ensuring a thorough scouting of the grove. The lack of wind allowed me to not be burdened with a heavy winter coat. I generated enough heat by walking in the knee deep snow and crossing blowdowns. I wore a light sweater, light vest, and light jacket with light gloves and a cap. It was refreshing to be dressed lightly and out in the brisk weather crashing through underbrush. However, if I stopped for more than a few minutes to measure a tree, I soon got too cold. I kept the laser, GPS, and camera one layer deep within my clothes. Any more would have made them too warm and condensation would have damaged them after their periodic exposures to the cold air. The circumstances allowed me to find tall skinny 133 foot white pines whose crowns had been 25-35' higher but had at some time been bent horizontal by heavy snow loads. All of those trees have since fallen since then due to subsequent snow loads in combination with their arching bent over habit. Additionally, I covered an area that I normally would have ignored, but went into to stick to my regimen of well defined grids in the snow. As a result, I found 147' and 150' tall white pines adjacent to each other outside the main grove. Those are the tallest trees that I have measured in Wisconsin outside the Menominee Reservation. Both accurately laser measured in -22F weather in the dusky twilight and reverified within a half a foot on a 95F midsummer day the following year. That time, the grove was filled with tourists and nesting great blue herons, as well as mosquitoes! I preferred the colder day. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Frelich" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ENTS] Re: The Ramble Grove_Asheville NC > Bob: > Yes, keeping electronic instruments under your coat is pretty much > necessary when its below zero. However, I don't do field work on days > when the high is predicted to be below zero. Its just not an efficient > use of time. 0-10 degrees is my minimum for field work, although I do > recreational activities at colder temperatures. > Lee > [email protected] wrote: >> James, >> Well, north is relative. At my latitude, we grab opportunities when >> they arise and just limit our exposure, time wise. Farther north, in >> Lee's neck of the woods, I think measuring gets suspended entirely. He >> and Paul will have to confirm that observation, but trying to get a >> laser to work in sub-zero is not a smart idea. Maybe they have >> techniques like keeping the laser inside a garment next to the body, >> whipping it out, taking a quick shot and submerging it again. >> Bob >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "James Parton" <[email protected]> >> To: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 9:26:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: [ENTS] Re: The Ramble Grove_Asheville NC >> Bob, >> I was hoping for an outing tomorrow, but cold hands may be a real >> problem. How do northern ents cope? That button on the Nikon 440 is >> too small to use adequately with heavily gloved hands and try writing >> down data with heavy gloves on. I have learned that pulling off your >> gloves, even for a short time is not usually a good idea! >> James. >> On Jan 2, 8:20 am, Bob <[email protected]> wrote: >> > James >> > Good job. I sympathize with you on the freezing hands problem. >> > That was what curtailed my tree measuring in Montpelier. >> > Bob >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > On Jan 2, 2010, at 12:35 AM, James Parton <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > > ENTS, >> > > Today I finally got back to do some measuring of a nice White Pine >> > > grove that I found while on another hike back in January 2009. The >> > > grove is located between the Blue Ridge Parkway and Hendersonville >> > > Rd ( Hwy 25 ) near where the parkway crosses over 25. I call it the >> > > Ramble Grove because of the nearby Ramble housing development >> > > located nearby. >> http://www.nativetreesociety.org/fieldtrips/north_carolina/20090125-b... >> > > The grove is dominated by Eastern White Pine but also contains >> > > Tuliptree and Pitch Pine with American Holly as an understory tree. >> > > A few oaks and shortleaf pines are found here too, especially near >> > > the borders of the grove. Large Poison Ivy vines also climb to >> > > great >> > > heights into the trees. I found one huge vine that was two feet in >> > > circumference! Why do some forests have large Poison Ivy vines >> > > while >> > > others lack Poison Ivy all together? Poison Ivy seems rare in most >> > > older growth forests I visit while it seems more common in younger >> > > forests. Especially near populated areas. Does anyone know why? I >> > > would guess this grove to be young judging by the trees youthful >> > > appearance and many branch stubs on the trunks of the pines. I >> > > would >> > > guess the grove at 60-80 years old. >> > > The tallest tree found today was a respectable White Pine that was >> > > 143..2 feet tall and 6' 3" in girth. Tall and slim. The largest >> > > overall was a Tuliptree that was 138.3 feet tall and 8' 9" in >> > > girth. >> > > Also a hollylike plant was found in the forest that I believe is an >> > > invasive species. Can anyone identify this " mystery holly " for >> > > me? ... read more ยป- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- astern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org end email to [email protected] isit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en o unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- astern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org end email to [email protected] isit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en o unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
