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Several years ago I had the same problem with loss of power on take off. All thought it was ice but it turned out to be Eisemann magnetos. The mags checked fine until take off. The were gunked up with oil or grease and didn't show the fault until a couple of hundred feet in the air. My a&p cleaned them and put in new seals and I have not had the problem since. Cecil Green -----Original Message----- From: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:01 AM To: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated) Subject: Digest list: Ercoupe Technical Discussion (moderated) ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- Message list: 1. [COUPERS-TECH] RE: Ercoupe carb icing 2. Re: [COUPERS-TECH] RE: Ercoupe carb icing 3. [COUPERS-TECH] Bely Strobe Messages: From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Donald Perricone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Coupe-Tech" <[email protected]> Reply-To: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] RE: Ercoupe carb icing Donald, After reading your description below, I'm very inclined to think that you did NOT have carb ice. It sounds like something is making your engine run too lean since carb heat also richens the mixture some. I find it hard to think you'd get carb ice so quickly after takeoff on three occasions. Since carb heat enrichened the mixture and made it run somewhat better, I'd say you might have been running a bit into the detonation range and are susceptible to detonation caused engine failure (and may have some damage already). It sound kind of like the time I had an air passage in my Stromberg carb get clogged by air-filter fibers causing excessive leanness and roughness/partial loss of power (improved by carb heat). You might be suspicious of the competence of the A&P for his failure to consider mixture issues. Perhaps you want to find a different A&P. Since the engine was still running and the carb heat didn't melt the "ice" to give you full power, I don't think you had carb ice (on three occasions). Personally, I'd have the carb pulled off and gone through (but I'm mostly ignorant on mechanical/engine stuff). I'd check everything related to engine mixture control. I've only got a pilot's viewpoint on this stuff - I'm no kind of mechanic. These are my best guesses. Here's a thought before your next test flight: A leading national ultralight engine overhauler said: If you have an engine stoppage or power loss in the air, and you land, it's really smart to be SURE you know what caused the problem before you take off again. Ed Burkhead http://edburkhead.com/ ed -at- edburkheadQQQ.com (change -at- and remove the QQQ) -----Original Message----- From: Donald Perricone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:09 AM To: Ed Burkhead Subject: Ercoupe carb icing Ed: There have been several e-mails from members about carb icing and I want to add a situation that happened to me in our coupe N93334 about a week ago. The airplane is pretty much a standard 415C with a Cont. 75 upgraded to a 85, It is equipped with a Marvel carb which was rebuilt last Fall when the plane was restored to flying condition. We also have the STC for auto fuel and use a 50% 87 oct. 50% Av 100 low led. On the particular day I flew the temperature was in the low 80 F. and about 75% humidity. Pretty normal for this time of the year in Central New York. In preparation for the flight I did the usual pre-flight inspection which of course includes draining a sample of the fuel out of both wing tanks and the header tank. I didn't find any water and everything was clear. The "before take-off check" list was normal with no excessive mag. drop and the carb heat check was normal. The take-off was on a grass strip of 2,500 feet at 800' MSL with little or no wind. Everything was good with no problems. I flew over to another airport which is about 20 miles away and landed on a hard surface runway with no problems. I shut down the engine and went in to have a coke. When I came out I started the engine and taxied out to the run-up area and performed the regular pre-flight check with no problems. The take-off was normal until I got to about 300'AGL and the engine started to lose power. It was too late to abort the take-off so I immediately turned on the cross wind leg and headed downwind for the same runway I had just left. I flew the downwind at about 600'AGL and pulled the carb heat on. The engine still wasn't running at full power but it was enough to keep me in the air. I flew a short base and final and landed. After this interesting experience I taxied back to the run-up area and did another pre-take off check. The mag drop was normal and the carb heat was also normal. I also did full power static run-up and got the usual 2,350 RPM. I now went to the very end of the runway and started my take-off run. The full power came up as normal but when I started to climb the power again started to sag. I at once pull the power and aborted the take-off. At this point I said, "enough is enough" and called a friend of mine to bring some tie-down rope and come and get me. I related all of the above to our A&P who was working at the airport and he said he would go over with me to look at the plane and see what was wrong. We did that and he drained fuel out of all three tanks and found nothing. He also pulled the filter on the carb and found nothing. He pulled the screen on the gasculator and disconnected the line from the header tank and the fuel was flowing properly. He even elevated the nose about 45% on a concrete block with plane tied down and had me run it up to full power and found nothing. After he got everything buttoned up he told me to try another take-off and the same thing happed. At this point he didn't have any answers but to suggest that I take-off with half carb heat. I did this and everything was o.k. When I pulled the carb heat off the RPM went up about 200 RPM. The A&P conclusion was the culprit was carb ice. We have flown the plane about 3 hours since then and everything seems to be o.k. The A&P wants to put a shield around the carb air intake because it doesn't fit well with the nose bowl to keep the air from cooling the carb housing. Other than that maybe this particular carb is prone to icing. Any thoughts about the above situation would be appreciated. Thanks! Don 93334 ---------------------------- From: Richard Wilkens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Reply-To: Richard Wilkens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] RE: Ercoupe carb icing Ed, You might be on the right track. I had 904 develop an occasional engine cut out over a period of several months. The first time I was just coming into the pattern and reduced the power a little which resulted in a very quiet engine. Full power brought everything back to normal. It did this to me at least two more times. These events where weeks apart and there was nothing I could tell my AP how I made it quit. Then one afternoon, I was cruising about 1,000 AGL and went to reduce power and again the engine got very quiet, so I pulled the carb heat and it came back to life. It didn't run real well, but it didn't run like it had carb ice either. As I played with it on the way back to the airport, if I shut the carb heat off it died. If I either put the carb heat on or went to full power, all was OK. I ran the carb heat all the way back to the airport thinking there must be ice. On the ground, I said something to the old FOB guy about carb ice, and he just looked up at the sky and said "Carb ice, today?" and gave me that funny look. I came to the conclusion on the drive home that I had a lean engine. I tried to figure out what was common to all incidences, and decided I had gone to full-rich mixture before each one. Next time I went to the airport, I checked the mixture leakage, and sure enough the mixture control cable was about ½ inch too long. If I closed the mixture quickly, the cable would hit the carb body and keep the carb from going full-rich. If I closed it slowly, all was fine. I cut a ½ inch of cable off the end and all has been fine since then. This only shows to me that APs are human and sometimes make mistakes. An AP had installed the crab months ago, and it had been through at least one annual before it started to act up. Richard N99904 At 11:40 AM 10/21/2004 -0500, Ed Burkhead wrote: >----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any >advice in this forum.]---- > > > > >Donald, > > > >After reading your description below, I m very inclined to think that you >did NOT have carb ice. It sounds like something is making your engine run >too lean since carb heat also richens the mixture some. I find it hard to >think you d get carb ice so quickly after takeoff on three occasions. > > > >Since carb heat enrichened the mixture and made it run somewhat better, I >d say you might have been running a bit into the detonation range and are >susceptible to detonation caused engine failure (and may have some damage >already). > > > >It sound kind of like the time I had an air passage in my Stromberg carb >get clogged by air-filter fibers causing excessive leanness and >roughness/partial loss of power (improved by carb heat). > > > >You might be suspicious of the competence of the A&P for his failure to >consider mixture issues. Perhaps you want to find a different A&P. > > > >Since the engine was still running and the carb heat didn t melt the ice >to give you full power, I don t think you had carb ice (on three occasions). > > > >Personally, I d have the carb pulled off and gone through (but I m mostly >ignorant on mechanical/engine stuff). I d check everything related to >engine mixture control. > > > >I ve only got a pilot s viewpoint on this stuff I m no kind of mechanic. > >Here s a thought before your next test flight: A leading national >ultralight engine overhauler said: If you have an engine stoppage or power >loss in the air, and you land, it s really smart to be SURE you know what >caused the problem before you take off again. > > > >Ed Burkhead > >http://edburkhead.com/ > >ed -at- edburkheadQQQ.com (change -at- and remove the QQQ) > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Donald Perricone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:09 AM >To: Ed Burkhead >Subject: Ercoupe carb icing > > > >Ed: > > > >There have been several e-mails from members about carb icing and I want >to add a situation that happened to me in our coupe N93334 about a week >ago. The airplane is pretty much a standard 415C with a Cont. 75 upgraded >to a 85, It is equipped with a Marvel carb which was rebuilt last Fall >when the plane was restored to flying condition. We also have the STC for >auto fuel and use a 50% 87 oct. 50% Av 100 low led. > > > >On the particular day I flew the temperature was in the low 80 F. and >about 75% humidity. Pretty normal for this time of the year in Central >New York. In preparation for the flight I did the usual pre-flight >inspection which of course includes draining a sample of the fuel out of >both wing tanks and the header tank. I didn't find any water and >everything was clear. The "before take-off check" list was normal with no >excessive mag. drop and the carb heat check was normal. The take-off was >on a grass strip of 2,500 feet at 800' MSL with little or no >wind. Everything was good with no problems. I flew over to another >airport which is about 20 miles away and landed on a hard surface runway >with no problems. I shut down the engine and went in to have a >coke. When I came out I started the engine and taxied out to the run-up >area and performed the regular pre-flight check with no problems. The >take-off was normal until I got to about 300'AGL and the engine started to >lose power. It was too late to abort the take-off so I immediately turned >on the cross wind leg and headed downwind for the same runway I had just >left. I flew the downwind at about 600'AGL and pulled the carb heat >on. The engine still wasn't running at full power but it was enough to >keep me in the air. I flew a short base and final and landed. > > > >After this interesting experience I taxied back to the run-up area and did >another pre-take off check. The mag drop was normal and the carb heat was >also normal. I also did full power static run-up and got the usual 2,350 >RPM. I now went to the very end of the runway and started my take-off >run. The full power came up as normal but when I started to climb the >power again started to sag. I at once pull the power and aborted the >take-off. At this point I said, "enough is enough" and called a friend of >mine to bring some tie-down rope and come and get me. > > > >I related all of the above to our A&P who was working at the airport and >he said he would go over with me to look at the plane and see what was >wrong. We did that and he drained fuel out of all three tanks and found >nothing. He also pulled the filter on the carb and found nothing. He >pulled the screen on the gasculator and disconnected the line from the >header tank and the fuel was flowing properly. He even elevated the nose >about 45% on a concrete block with plane tied down and had me run it up to >full power and found nothing. After he got everything buttoned up he told >me to try another take-off and the same thing happed. At this point he >didn't have any answers but to suggest that I take-off with half carb >heat. I did this and everything was o.k. When I pulled the carb heat off >the RPM went up about 200 RPM. The A&P conclusion was the culprit was >carb ice. We have flown the plane about 3 hours since then and everything >seems to be o.k. The A&P wants to put a shield around the carb air intake >because it doesn't fit well with the nose bowl to keep the air from >cooling the carb housing. Other than that maybe this particular carb is >prone to icing. > > > >Any thoughts about the above situation would be appreciated. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Don 93334 > > >========================================================================= == === >To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm >Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/ > > > ---------------------------- From: "JThomas Terry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: "JThomas Terry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Bely Strobe Does anyone have drawings or photos of the installation of a belly strobe? Thanks Tommy N93929 ---------------------------- ========================================================================== == == To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/ ========================================================================== ==== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers-tech/
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