As I see it, V2G may be beneficial to the electric utility, And it may not
be very harmful to the Vehicle battery (and owner) but I will not
participate if there is not some economic advantage to me... Further , if
the electric utility invests in equipment to utilize V2G and fails to
invest in increased generating capacity as is the normal practice then
eventually the necessary capacity will be needed. and rates will rise to
pay for the additional capacity (Perhaps they could add sustainable power
generation to their portfolio)  It is always a Pay-Pay result to the
consumers.

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* <evprofes...@evprofessor.com>

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 5:18 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> V2G is not about draining the battery entirely to keep the grid from
> collapsing, but more about short bursts of high power that help stabilize
> the grid, comparable to the power needed to brake/accelerate again.
> So, even after a vehicle has helped stabilize the grid, its state of charge
> will be similar as when it started supporting the grid. In addition, the
> battery of the EV chan be charged normally (with brief interruptions for
> grid stabilization) so in the course of a day it is no problem to charge
> its battery to a preset minimum charge level or to "full".
> Of course there is some wear and tear on a pack from grid assistance, but
> it is nothing like a full discharge/charge cycle - batteries are much
> better capable of handling many short cycle discharge/charge events than
> full charge, otherwise the Hybrid vehicles would not get over 10 years of
> life from the Hybrid battery packs.
> So, the utility should pay for the service, since this avoids their own
> installation of grid backup storage, which is not only actually done but
> also heavily subsidized with grants if you do install a grid backup system.
> So - why not in vehicles?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of harry henderson
> via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 10:53 AM
> To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: E-school-buses $ave school districts million$
> &power the grid
>
> i understand the benefits and savings of using electric bus in stead of
> fossil fuels one, but how is feeding the power grid beneficial?
>
> are they using the battery storage as a buffer for peak demand [e.g. noon
> or when folks get home after work/school]?  the buses could offer some help
> midday, but they would be spent for the afternoon?
>
> harry
>
> Albuquerque, NM
> current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
> current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/3/14, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: E-school-buses $ave school districts million$ &
> power the grid
>  To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>  Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2014, 2:06 AM
>
>
>
>  http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2014/may/electric-school-bus-052814.html
>  Electric school buses that power grid could save school
>  districts millions
>  May 28, 2014  by Teresa Messmore
>
>  [image  / Trans Tech Bus
>  http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2014/may/images/ElectricSchoolBus.jpg
>  Electric school buses, such as the Trans Tech model shown
>  here, could save
>  school districts millions if integrated with a
>  vehicle-to-grid system,
>  according to new research
>  ]
>
>  Diesel bus alternative
>  Electric school buses that power grid could save school
>  districts millions
>
>  9:29 a.m., May 28, 2014--Electric school buses that feed the
>  power grid
>  could save school districts millions of dollars - and
>  reduce children's
>  exposure to diesel fumes - based on recent research by the
>  University of
>  Delaware's College of Earth, Ocean, and Environment
>  (CEOE).
>
>  A new study examines the cost-effectiveness of electric
>  school buses that
>  discharge their batteries into the electrical grid when not
>  in use and get
>  paid for the service. The technology, called vehicle-to-grid
>  (V2G), was
>  pioneered at UD and is being tested with electric cars in a
>  pilot project.
>
>  Adapting the system for school bus fleets is a logical
>  application. School
>  buses generally travel distances within electric vehicles'
>  battery range,
>  and they are not in use for much of the day. Electric school
>  buses also do
>  not release sooty diesel exhaust, which contains pollutants
>  that can cause
>  respiratory irritation, lung cancer and heart disease.
>
>  "I see neighborhood kids waiting for and riding school
>  buses out my window
>  or when walking my dog," said Jeremy Firestone, CEOE
>  professor of marine
>  policy and director of the Center for Carbon-free Power
>  Integration.
>  "Electric buses have the benefit of kids not standing
>  around or having their
>  windows open while diesel fumes are being released."
>
>  For the study, researchers analyzed existing diesel school
>  bus routes in a
>  mid-sized suburban school district in Delaware and
>  calculated the costs and
>  benefits of V2G-capable electric bus replacements. Over 14
>  years, which is
>  the typical lifespan of a bus, a V2G electric bus fleet
>  could save an
>  estimated $38 million.
>
>  "I was surprised," said study lead author Lance Noel.
>  "The savings go
>  through the roof."
>
>  The economic research took into account costs associated
>  with fuel,
>  electricity and batteries, as well as pollution-related
>  health care expenses
>  and other factors.
>
>  A diesel bus costs $110,000, compared with $260,000 for an
>  electric bus
>  equipped with a V2G-capable, 70-kilowatt on-board charger.
>  Diesel buses have
>  an average fuel economy of 6 miles per gallon, including the
>  effects of
>  idling, and emit soot, ozone, sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide
>  and other
>  pollutants. These fumes can be disproportionately higher
>  within the cabin of
>  a bus compared to surrounding pollution levels.
>
>  Add up diesel gas costs plus the medical expenses to
>  society, and the diesel
>  bus looks less cost-effective over time. Electric buses
>  providing V2G
>  services, meanwhile, cover the battery charging and
>  additional capital
>  investment costs, and in addition generate profits while
>  releasing no
>  tailpipe pollution.
>
>  Choosing a V2G-capable electric bus over a diesel bus would
>  save a school
>  district $6,070 per bus seat, or $230,000 per bus over the
>  vehicle's 14-year
>  lifespan. Even with taking out the medical and climate
>  change costs
>  associated with diesel pollution, school districts could
>  still save $5,700
>  per seat.
>
>  "They could save a large amount of money while also
>  shifting away from the
>  consumption of diesel and enhancing school children's
>  health," the authors
>  write in the paper.
>
>  There is still a way to go before such V2G-capable school
>  buses become a
>  reality, however. Electric school buses are uncommon, with
>  the first Trans
>  Tech all-electric school bus tested in California earlier
>  this year.
>
>  While electric school buses can be cost-competitive without
>  providing V2G
>  services, the V2G technology would produce substantially
>  larger savings for
>  school districts.
>
>  "The V2G capability is what changes the economics of the
>  school bus," said
>  study co-author Regina McCormack, who along with Noel is a
>  graduate student
>  in CEOE's School of Marine Science and Policy.
>
>  The study, titled "A Cost Benefit Analysis of a
>  V2G-Capable Electric School
>  Bus compared to a Traditional Diesel School Bus," appears
>  in the Aug. 1
>  issue of Applied Energy and can be viewed online. For more
>  information,
>  contact Lance Noel at ln...@udel.edu or
>  Regina McCormack at
>  rmcco...@udel.edu.
>
>  About UD's College of Earth, Ocean, and Environment
>
>  UD's College of Earth, Ocean, and Environment (CEOE)
>  strives to reach a
>  deeper understanding of the planet and improve stewardship
>  of environmental
>  resources. CEOE faculty and students examine complex
>  information from
>  multiple disciplines with the knowledge that science and
>  society are firmly
>  linked and solutions to environmental challenges can be
>  synonymous with
>  positive economic impact.
>
>  The college brings the latest advances in technology to bear
>  on both
>  teaching and conducting ocean, earth and atmospheric
>  research. Current focus
>  areas are ecosystem health and society, environmental
>  observing and
>  forecasting, and renewable energy and sustainability.
>  [© udel.edu]
>  ...
>  http://dailyfusion.net/2014/05/electric-school-buses-28809/
>  Electric School Buses Could Save Millions of Dollars
>  May 29, 2014
>  ...
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwiler/2014/05/29/ideal-power-some-day-an-electric-school-bus-may-save-you-from-a-blackout/
>  Ideal Power: Some Day, An Electric School Bus May Save You
>  From A Blackout
>  5/29/2014
>  ...
>
> http://www.stnonline.com/home/latest-news/6102-northern-california-school-district-debuts-first-full-sized-electric-bus
>  Northern California School District Debuts First
>  Solar-Assisted Electric Bus
>  PDF
>  Print
>  E-mail
>  30 May 2014
>
>
>
>
>  For all EVLN posts use:
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date
>
>
> http://www.kansascity.com/2014/06/01/5060791/congregation-ohev-sholoms-kosherfest.html
>  KS ElectriCITY+EAA+Heartland EV Coalition @ ohev-sholom.com
>  KosherFest
>  http://ohev-sholom.com/kosherfest-electric-avenue/
>
>
> http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/01/6443493/browns-steady-march-to-an-alternative.html
>  "We need to teach the electric car to speak Spanish" sez
>  Sen. de León
>  ...
>  http://www.google.com/#q=Senator+de+Le%C3%B3n
>
>  http://www.autosphere.ca/fleetdigest/2014/05/27/volvo-electric-roads/
>  Volvo to Build Electric Roads
>
>
> http://www.yakimaherald.com/photosandvideos/latestphotos/2198325-8/yakima-transit-wrapping-up-test-of-electric-bus
>  Yakima Transit wrapping up test of electric bus
>
>
> http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2014/May/Nissan-installs-charging-corridor-in-Vendee-France/0438014618
>  Nissan installs L3 EVSE corridor in Vendee, France
>  +
>  EVLN: SB1275 would make it cheaper for Californians to buy
>  EVs
>
>
>  {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
>  --
>  View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-E-school-buses-ave-school-districts-million-power-the-grid-tp4669796.html
>  Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
>  archive at Nabble.com.
>  _______________________________________________
>  UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>  http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>  For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140603/59f8c810/attachment.htm>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply via email to