Correct in that the grid will stay for the forseeable future. Today it is cost effective to install several hundred sq feet of solar, which can be placed on almost every building in one way or another, and which is sufficient to offset the majority of the average (net) consumption. Next step might be to add local (whole house) storage while still being grid-interactive (sell back at peaks) and give you the benefit of not being bothered when the grid goes off, your whole house still has the lights on, similar to an off-grid solution but with the benefits of both being able to sell back the excess as well as draw power when the sun does not fill up the local storage enough. EV packs *could* be tied into this but not necessarily since the typical commuter use of EVs makes them not present while the sun is out. There are interesting dynamics here and for now, no silver bullet. Since my EV is the major electricity consumer in the home, it makes sense if that is put on some demand response. I made my EV my DIY UPS by adding a 3kVA sine wave inverter to it, so I can keep the lights on in my home if the power goes for an extended period. I hope I never need it and it remains just a gadget, but I like to be prepared.
Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 12:55 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - backdoor solution Not everyone has a suburban ranch home with 2000 sq ft of roof. Many urban dwellers live in apartments with a tiny apportioned amount of roof space. Others have used the roof for other purposes - such as south facing clerestorey windows or a roof garden. Others may have gables with roofs facing east or west. Many don't have a garage with a separate roof. In my case, there's no way I can get enough panels to go off the grid with today's technology. The grid is here to stay for the indefinite future. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "Ben Goren via EV" <[email protected]> To: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: 09-Jan-15 12:35:33 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - backdoor solution >On Jan 9, 2015, at 8:29 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ><[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm no expert, but I suppose it might come to pass if PV efficiency >>jumps >> and cost tumbles, > >PV efficiency is already plenty. The insolation on the average >single-family home's roof at today's efficiency is virtually always >some multiple, generally some very significant multiple, of the home's >electricity use. And said multiple is again virtually always more than >adequate to charge a vehicle. > >And materials are and for some time have been the cheapest component of >a PV installation. What costs all the money is first and foremost the >labor; qualified electricians aren't cheap, especially those who both >have experience with high voltage DC and are competent roofers. And, >many places, the legal paperwork -- all the permits and inspections and >utility company writeoffs and what-not -- winds up costing more than >the bill of materials. > >The key ingredients we really need are twofold: solar roofing >installations that can take the place of and be installed by today's >low-skill roofing laborers (perhaps with an electrician just for the >final run from the roof to the breaker box) and less-expensive battery >technology. The former exists in various prototypes that keep getting >mentioned in press releases, and the latter is something well known to >the EV crowd. > >> "Aargh, no clean underwear, and I can't do laundry because we're at >>7% and I >> still have to charge the car. I wonder if the car has enough charge >>left >> for a trip to the store to buy some." > >That just means the system is under-sized. In such a case, either you >should have spent more for a bigger system, or you knew what you were >getting into and therefore budget your energy use accordingly. Low >income households already face similar problems...do I pay the electric >bill with the last $50 remaining on this credit card's limit, or do I >use the money to buy groceries for the kids? > >> "Sorry, boss, I can't come in to work until this afternoon. Joe ran >>the >> house flat with his welder last night, and I won't have enough juice >>to >> charge my car until the sun comes up." > >If Joe's a contractor, he should be showing up with his own power >supply (such as one of the many industrial EVs we've seen Bruce mention >with their own power plugs) to run the welder in this future -- or, >otherwise, first making sure that the site he's visiting has the spare >capacity to power the welder. And if Joe lives in the home, it's his >own damned fault. > >> Also, the cost of storage (lithium battery? what?) > >It's a big question today, but I suspect we'll have a clear winner in >the next several years at the most. Nickel-iron batteries live longer >than people but cost more than any other type of battery. Lead acids >are pretty cheap but die after a few years and cost significantly more >over a lifetime. But there may well be a market in EV batteries old >enough to be less than optimal for vehicular use but still with plenty >left in them for an off-grid system. I could see leasing / renting of >battery systems becoming popular, with the company that owns the >batteries responsible for ensuring a minimum kWh capacity of the pack >in exchange for whatever fees they charge, similar to what we've >speculated Tesla might offer with their car battery swaps. > >> would have to decline by, oh, I dunno, say, 90%? > >Nowhere near as much. > >In many parts of the country, the payback time for a complete off-grid >solution is better than the payback time for money market funds and >other financial instruments. That is, if you're invested in the stock >market or especially your bank, you'll be wealthier at the end of a >decade or three if you pull the money out and put it into an off-grid >system. > >But that requires a significant amount (to most people) of available >capital. > >But it also means that a business -- such as Solar City -- can afford >to invest its own capital (or borrowed funds) to install such a system >and become an ad-hoc utility and still make a marginal profit. > >That's with today's technology...and it's only getting better. > >> I have no idea whether such a quantum leap in PV and energy storage >>tech is >> on the horizon. Absent one, though, I suspect your estimate of "ten >>to >> twenty years" is probably a bit optimistic. > >But that's just it. It's doable _and_economical_ today, if you have the >capital to invest. No more revolutionary breakthroughs are required to >bring it to the masses; only gradual refinements of the types we >regularly see and expect, perhaps coupled with some entrepreneurial >innovation. > >Cheers, > >b& >-------------- next part -------------- >A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >Name: signature.asc >Type: application/pgp-signature >Size: 801 bytes >Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150109/52f 1e68d/attachment.pgp> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
