I think that this is similar to what was done, or at least anticipated with 
BEVs in the early 1900's.

I've always liked the idea.

I know it's been looked at in more recent years, but the actual reasons for no 
one implementing such a scheme has, to me, been lost in the noise.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> People with ICE vehicles finance their fuel purchases separately from the 
> vehicle. The same could be done for electric vehicle battery packs. 
> 
> There is a good business model here for leasing battery packs separately from 
> the vehicle. A pack would be leased originally with a guaranteed capacity of 
> X. When it could no longer support that capacity, it could be leased to 
> another customer with a capacity of Y (where Y is some fraction of X). 
> Presumably the  lease rate for a Y pack would be less than the rate for an X 
> pack.  A customer who paid for an X pack would always have a pack with at 
> least that capacity.  It is up to the leasing company to guarantee this.
> 
> When a pack is no longer capable of supporting vehicle applications, it can 
> be leased for stationary applications such as grid stability, or peak load 
> shaving. When it is no longer suitable for stationary applications, it can be 
> recycled into a new pack.
> 
> Ed
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't think it has to do with the number of individual components
>> (cells in this case) or else the internal combustion engine would have
>> lost to the electric motor a very long time ago.
>> I think the problem is more with the upfront cost - it would be similar
>> to having to pay for almost all the fuel that your ICEV would be
>> consuming in the 8 or 10 years following, at the moment of vehicle
>> purchase.
>> So, we probably need a similar thing as cellphone companies do: either
>> you buy the phone upfront and you are free to go whomever you want, or
>> you buy a subsidized phone with a plan, but then you select a provider
>> that has good coverage in your area.
>> Meaning that you would buy an EV with a subsidy by the Charger Provider,
>> but you are required to install a charger from that provider in your
>> home and fill up (at home and on the go) at a charger from that
>> provider, unless you want to pay "roaming charges" to fill up at an EVSE
>> from a different provider.
>> 
>> And then there is the pay-as-you-go option where you would still own the
>> car (it is not a shared car which is another option) but only pay when
>> you are actually using it.
>> I am sure that there have already been people that have done the math on
>> business plans for these options, but this would shave off the threshold
>> for entrance into an EV compared to an ICEV.
>> I do not know if the business plans would work out though.
>> 
>> Cor van de Water 
>> Chief Scientist 
>> Proxim Wireless 
>> 
>> office +1 408 383 7626                    Skype: cor_van_de_water 
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130                    private: cvandewater.info 
>> 
>> http://www.proxim.com
>> 
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
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>> this message is prohibited.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of EVDL
>> Administrator via EV
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 1:47 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Batteries are King (A Gigafactory Challenge)
>> 
>> I'm hardly an expert on these matters, but over 7000 cells in a battery?
>> 
>> Good grief. With the stupefying amount of labor that has to go into 
>> assembling such batteries, I don't see how Tesla (or anyone) can ever
>> build 
>> an EV for the masses
>> 
>> By this I mean an EV that anyone can afford, with performance (including
>> 
>> range) pretty close to an equivalent ICEV.  
>> 
>> I don't mean a $37k EV (you don't really think that $7500 subsidy is
>> going 
>> to last, do you?). I'm talking about an EV that costs what an ICE Toyota
>> 
>> Yaris or Honda Fit costs, or less, and presents the same creature
>> comforts, 
>> with a range of at least 200 miles.
>> 
>> We know that 100 mile range is plenty.  A few people will accept that,
>> and a 
>> few will pay a premium over the cost of an equivalent ICEV.  Most won't.
>> 
>> That's why used Leafs are so unsettlingly cheap - it's supply and
>> demand.   
>> 
>> IMO, EVs won't become truly mainstream until they cost not just the same
>> as, 
>> but LESS than equivalent ICEVs.  I actually hope I'm proven wrong, but
>> from 
>> here I don't see that happening with an EV battery containing thousands
>> of 
>> tiny cells.  
>> 
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>> 
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