I have traced the Service Doc's schematics of several of my cars and many of the power circuits are no longer directly connected to the battery via the Ignition key contact, but instead are relay-controlled (which is enagaged by the ignition key directly or by electronics that is triggered by the "Start" Button for newer cars without actual ignition key lock). If the battery voltage is too low to allow pulling in the relay or if the electronics controlling the "ignition" relay cannot boot from the weak battery, then there will be no alternator output, even though the battery voltage itself might be enough to excite the alternator - if the power cannot get to the alternator, then you cannot push-start the car. Maybe have an emergency override where you power only the alternator exciter from a push button without the car turning on? Problem is that many modern cars have an electronic parking safety that needs battery power to disengage, so jumping is the better approach in those cases.
Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:20 AM To: Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pop-starting a stick shift? In my opinion, you may be half right. My logic says You can not start a new vehicle with a pop-start with a 'completely ' dead 12v battery. But thinking a little more i also have my doubts; since the alternator once is spinning due to pop-start, is ready/can to produce electricity, which in both cases would energize the entire electronics on board, by consequence produce sparks and start the ICE machine. But me doubt comes with a completely dead battery (0volts) not sure if the alternator control cable (exite cable) could induce any curret so it start producing energy. If that is not true, it would only take more time to start a newer vehicle. Also, usually batteries never get to 0v and it would depend on how fine and robust the car's electronics is, by letting all this process to happen with very little voltage (power) Just like you said: the only power needed to produce a spark. On newer vehicles would be: ...to produce the spark and efficiently power all the needed electronics to make the engine work properly. And that some times may be a considerable amount of power. Marco Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > This is the only car group I know. So pardon the off-topic post. > > > > A young kid with a minicooper flagged me down to jump start his car. I > told him, I'd be happy to if he could figure out how to use my 400V pack.... > > > > Then I asked, well, have you tried just rolling it and popping the clutch > to get it started. He looked at me with blank stare. I smugly said, sure, > it's a stick shift, so we just get it rolling and pop the clutch and it > will start. > > > > It wouldn't. Then I began to realize, that all the cars I have done this > with in the past DID NOT HAVE ANY CPU's in them. IE, all you have to do is > get a spark, not power up and entire network of computers before the motor > will even begin to consider the "starting process". > > > > So is this true? That we can no longer pop-start a modern car with a dead > battery? > > > > My son (too cheap to buy a new battery) still does it frequently with his > pre-cpu Geo-Tracker, in fact we just did it last week. > > > > I'm just too old for all these newfangled hurdles... > > > > Bob > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160818/8d07 6b7c/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
