I remember when  Toyota was ramping up their Prius production and introducing 
the new 2004 model
and GM engineers had looked at the car and concluded that there was no way 
Toyota was making money
and was probably going to stop soon as they should be making a loss on every 
car produced.
Soon after that GM statement, Toyota announced that the revenue from Prius 
sales was so high that
the same year they would be breaking even on their investment in Hybrid vehicle 
production
and moving the Hybrid technology into other product lines as well, while making 
a good profit on every Prius sold...
So yeah - not fully investing and just doing the minimal "compliance car" can 
hurt your business.
Actually specializing in a new technology might be scary, but the only way to 
do it well and come out with a profit.
Just a history lesson ;-)
Oh and the Prius was in so high demand that people actually had to wait up to 
half a year to get their new Prius.
Tesla is not the first to create a large waiting list for a new and highly 
desired vehicle.
Cor.

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 2:16 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peri Hartman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Fiat ups the amount lo$t on each 500e sold> (a 2012 
compliance EV) r:87mi

Well, let them go bankrupt if they can't figure it out. In the US, I don't know 
if anyone is finding EVs profitable yet, without credits or other compensation. 
However, it's very evident that some companies are not losing money, all things 
considered. Maybe they need robots to assembly battery packs :)

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "brucedp5 via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "brucedp5" <bruce...@juno.com>
Sent: 05-Oct-17 2:00:04 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Fiat ups the amount lo$t on each 500e sold> (a
2012 compliance EV) r:87mi

>
>
>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fca-loses-staggering-20-000-175717430.ht
>ml FCA loses a staggering $20,000 on every one of its all-electric cars 
>October 2, 2017  Matthew DeBord
>
>[images
>https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/pzm1V.X2joSqhFRrjhUmaw--/YXBwaWQ9aGln
>aGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjUwO2g9NDMz/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/en_us/F
>inance/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE/FCA_loses_a_staggering_20000-750d734
>6580d79b3257b535f4827ea82
>Fiat 500e
>
>https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/FTl8_wH9jBaevhmoByig.Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGln
>aGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjUwO2g9NDI2/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/en_us/F
>inance/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE/FCA_loses_a_staggering_20000-38d7565
>31f94f798a944f4682a169ae2
>]
>
>($20,000 in the hole.FCA)
>Automakers are rapidly embracing an all-electric future. But there's a
>catch: Nobody has figured out how to make a profit on electric cars.
>
>On Monday, General Motors pledged that it would unveil 20 new electric 
>cars by 2023, effectively committing the company to an all-electric 
>portfolio at some point in the future. GM Vice-President Mark Reuss 
>said that the carmaker would be profitable in the undertaking.
>
>At the moment, the industry is unclear on when those profits will 
>arrive.
>And some automakers are losing money hand over fist as they struggle to 
>read the crystal ball.
>
>Reporting for Bloomberg, Tommaso Ebhardt pointed out that 
>"[B]attery-powered autos have yet to become profitable" and noted that 
>Fiat Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio Marchionne said in a recent speech 
>that FCA is losing up to $20,000 a car on the electrified Fiat 500.
>
>(But the vehicle isn't unpopular.FCA)
>
>The 500e sells in the US for about $33,000 and can travel 87 miles on a 
>single charge. On numerous occasions, Marchionne has complained about 
>how bad a financial deal the vehicle is for the automaker. However, he 
>also knows that FCA doesn't want to be left completely behind in the EV 
>game, so it's not surprising that the 500e remains in the lineup.
>
>
>The 500e also has value as a "compliance vehicle," helping FCA meet 
>government-mandated fuel-economy requirements for the automaker's fleet 
>that's heavy on SUV and pickup-truck sales.
>
>It's not hard to understand why the 500e makes Marchionne, an 
>accountant and finance professional by training: in 2017, the company 
>has managed to sell anywhere from about 500 to more than 700 of the 
>vehicle monthly. That's enough demands to keep it around — and to keep 
>facing the $20,000 hit every time a customer drives off the dealer lot.
>[© yahoo.com]
>
>
>
>http://www.thedrive.com/news/14895/ferrari-says-no-thanks-to-autonomous-or-fully-electric-cars
>Ferrari Says 'No Thanks' to Autonomous and Fully-Electric Cars
>October 5, 2017 ... Fiat-Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne once famously
>answered the question of an autonomous, fully-electric Ferrari by 
>saying
>"You'll have to shoot me first ...
>http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/foundry/image/?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F10%2Fgettyimages-841889538.jpg%3Fquality%3D85
>
>
>[dated]
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Their-CEO-sez-Don-t-buy-the-Fiat-500e-EV-tp4669611.html
>EVLN: Their CEO sez "Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV"
>... $14,000 each time it sells (Fiat) ] Company loses $14,000 on ever
>electric vehicle Fiat-Chrysler's CEO had a strange request for electric
>vehicle shoppers on Wednesday: don't buy the all-electric Fiat 500e. 
>While
>CEO Sergio Marchionne was speaking at a conference in Washington, he 
>told
>the...
>May 23, 2014
>...
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2013-Fiat-500-To-Be-Called-500E-Report-tp4657223.html
>EVLN: 2013 Fiat 500 To Be Called 500E: Report
>... Chrysler says it expects to lose up to $10,000 on each 500E ...
>Aug 16, 2012
>
>
>
>http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/mm-will-lose-money-on-every-electric-car-supplied-to-eesl-pawan-goenka-2405823.html
>We will lose money on every electric car we supply to EESL: M&M's Pawan
>Goenka
>Oct 05, 2017 Mahindra & Mahindra will not be making any money on any of 
>the
>150 fully electric sedans it has committed to supplying to the 
>government
>following its aggressive bid which matched Tata Motors ... we have been 
>in
>the electric vehicle business for sometime and we know the cost ...  
>the M&M
>EV was more powerful and bigger than the Tata Motors EV ...
>http://static-news.moneycontrol.com/static-mcnews/2017/07/Dr-Pawan-Goenka-Managing-Director-MM-Ltd-with-the-electric-car-e2O-Plus-at-the-launch-of-Indias-first-Multi-Modal-Electric-Vehicle-Project-in-Nag-535x435.jpg
>
>
>
>
>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>
>--
>Sent from: 
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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>

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