Inefficient energy storage device? How so? 

Compared to batteries, they can store energy much longer. Batteries are in 
their sweet spot for energy storage for a number of hours, hydrogen for longer 
periods. Batteries are for small scale storage, hydrogen can be used up to grid 
level storage.

Musk comments that it's more efficient to directly charge a battery. Maybe 
that's true, but there are a long list of advantages and disadvantages of 
hydrogen/battery hybrids AND batteries-only. So use the correct tool for the 
job. For the auto, it depends what's best for you. To say otherwise is to 
suggest everyone should buy a compact, or an SUV, or ...

I think *that's* pretty silly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2017, at 3:45 PM, paul dove via EV <> wrote:
> Actually, Elon said that hydrogen was an inefficient energy storage device. 
> In addition, it has many technical drawbacks.
> I just think that they're extremely's just very difficult to make 
> hydrogen and store it and use it in a car," Musk said. "If you say took a 
> solar panel and use just charge a battery pack directly, compared 
> to split water, take hydrogen, dump oxygen, compress is about 
> half the efficiency."
> He also added that you can't tell when hydrogen is leaking and that it's 
> extremely flammable. When it catches fire, hydrogen has an invisible flame. 
> Not to mention hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Michael Ross via EV <> wrote:
>> I believe Musk has only slammed H2 in the context of EVs.  There certainly
>> is a great public misunderstanding that H2 can be a source of energy which
>> it absolutely is not, rather than its true role as a storage and transport
>> medium. I suspect this misunderstanding gave momentum to Toyota's decision
>> to work on HFCVs.
>> A colleague of mine did a very nice proposal for his masters project in
>> mechanical engineering, he was exploring how could we store renewable
>> energy to smooth out its circadian oscillations and not waste its
>> potential.  He was trying to do this at a continental or global scale.
>> I will also note that he had no ax to grind or prejudice.  He was an early
>> adopter of EVs, buying a 1st generation Leaf back when nobody did stuff
>> like that east of CA and the only Tesla was a Roadster..
>> He concluded that building enough batteries at this scale was not a
>> workable solution.  Too much material mined and the resultant ruination of
>> environment and habitat, etc.
>> At this scale hydrogen - even given the inefficiencies - looks very good.
>> You can make really large tanks to store hydrogen, pipe it, and dispense it
>> with far less collateral damage than with batteries. Once you have it
>> liquefied you could find some utility for it in vehicles.  But I think it
>> would be more prominent used as an alternative to damming up rivers for
>> pump storage, nuclear waste generating plants, digging multitudinous holes
>> for copper, aluminum, cobalt, manganese, lithium, polyesters for
>> electrolytes, and plastics for electrode separators,. and so on.  When you
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (

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