Hey Mark, I’m not arguing with you! I was trying to relate what I heard Elon say. I could be wrong but he seemed to be talking in general not just focused on EVs. We used Hydrogen in the Space Shuttle and they even had a Hydrogen fuel cell on board but it you notice Space X used RP1.
Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 31, 2017, at 1:37 AM, Mark Abramowitz <ma...@enviropolicy.com> wrote: > > Inefficient energy storage device? How so? > > Compared to batteries, they can store energy much longer. Batteries are in > their sweet spot for energy storage for a number of hours, hydrogen for > longer periods. Batteries are for small scale storage, hydrogen can be used > up to grid level storage. > > Musk comments that it's more efficient to directly charge a battery. Maybe > that's true, but there are a long list of advantages and disadvantages of > hydrogen/battery hybrids AND batteries-only. So use the correct tool for the > job. For the auto, it depends what's best for you. To say otherwise is to > suggest everyone should buy a compact, or an SUV, or ... > > I think *that's* pretty silly. > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 30, 2017, at 3:45 PM, paul dove via EV <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: >> >> Actually, Elon said that hydrogen was an inefficient energy storage device. >> In addition, it has many technical drawbacks. >> >> I just think that they're extremely silly....it's just very difficult to >> make hydrogen and store it and use it in a car," Musk said. "If you say took >> a solar panel and use that...to just charge a battery pack directly, >> compared to split water, take hydrogen, dump oxygen, compress hydrogen...it >> is about half the efficiency." >> >> He also added that you can't tell when hydrogen is leaking and that it's >> extremely flammable. When it catches fire, hydrogen has an invisible flame. >> >> Not to mention hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Michael Ross via EV <email@example.com> wrote: >>> >>> I believe Musk has only slammed H2 in the context of EVs. There certainly >>> is a great public misunderstanding that H2 can be a source of energy which >>> it absolutely is not, rather than its true role as a storage and transport >>> medium. I suspect this misunderstanding gave momentum to Toyota's decision >>> to work on HFCVs. >>> >>> A colleague of mine did a very nice proposal for his masters project in >>> mechanical engineering, he was exploring how could we store renewable >>> energy to smooth out its circadian oscillations and not waste its >>> potential. He was trying to do this at a continental or global scale. >>> >>> I will also note that he had no ax to grind or prejudice. He was an early >>> adopter of EVs, buying a 1st generation Leaf back when nobody did stuff >>> like that east of CA and the only Tesla was a Roadster.. >>> >>> He concluded that building enough batteries at this scale was not a >>> workable solution. Too much material mined and the resultant ruination of >>> environment and habitat, etc. >>> >>> At this scale hydrogen - even given the inefficiencies - looks very good.. >>> You can make really large tanks to store hydrogen, pipe it, and dispense it >>> with far less collateral damage than with batteries. Once you have it >>> liquefied you could find some utility for it in vehicles. But I think it >>> would be more prominent used as an alternative to damming up rivers for >>> pump storage, nuclear waste generating plants, digging multitudinous holes >>> for copper, aluminum, cobalt, manganese, lithium, polyesters for >>> electrolytes, and plastics for electrode separators,. and so on. When you _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)