I think California has a state law requiring this.

But it may never make sense for existing low income multi-unit dwellings.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I think encouraging municipalities to change building codes to require some 
> percentage (or 100%) of parking places to have EV charging makes sense.
> 
> However, the low hanging fruit is all the non-apartment dwellers. We really 
> need to focus there to keep building the momentum. Once enough of those 
> people believe in EVs, they will contribute to the effort and make it easier 
> to legislate ESVEs for apartment dwellers.
> 
> Peri
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Glenn Brooks via EV" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Glenn Brooks" <[email protected]>
> Sent: 25-Feb-21 3:57:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Your mail may arrive by EV - or it may not
> 
>> I lived in Alaska for 30 years. Nearly every apartment and parking spot in 
>> the state is equipped with an individual electrical outlet to keep cars from 
>> freezing up during wintertime. Battery chargers, battery blankets, interior 
>> heaters and dipstick warmers all get plugged into these parking lot outlets. 
>> In winter, if you don’t plug in your car every time you drive it, you cant 
>> use it again until spring.
>> 
>> If we accept today’s apartment dweller access problem as the architectural 
>> status quo, then yes. It’s indisputable. EV’s will never work for 1/3 to 1/2 
>> of the general population.
>> 
>> However, clearly, certain apartment dwelling demographic segments could be 
>> eager EV adopters - for example, young people, starting out in their working 
>> life;   up and coming, 30 somethings, innovative professionals;  those 
>> established long term renters who can’t afford to purchase their own home; 
>> or anyone living on a budget who wishes to save fuel and car maintenance 
>> costs. folks in any of these demographics could lead the way to EV adoption 
>> and market penetration for apartment dwellers.
>> 
>> So, advocate to these groups, to install car chargers.
>> 
>> Once apartment owners see the benefit in installing electrical outlets, it 
>> becomes no big deal.   indeed, in Fairbanks, apartment and condo building 
>> owners who don’t provide these things to tenants, are at a serious 
>> competitive disadvantage. Guess what they have all done?
>> 
>> Now, does it require an advertising campaign, tax credit, or some other 
>> incentive to get started? Absolutely. Any social change requires thorough 
>> and thoughtful informational campaigns. That’s the nature of innovation.
>> 
>> Isn’t that exactly what the EV community is all about?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Feb 25, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> About 2/3rds of all residences are single family homes by national census.
>>> IE, fully 1/3rd generally cannot conveniently own an EV.
>>> 
>>> I used that figure in my talks until I got statistics relevant to
>>> Maryland.  In Maryland (and presumably other mid-atlantic urban states) the
>>> figure is closer to 50%.
>>> 
>>> That is a huge factor but is also something that clever DIY individuals can
>>> help overcome on a case basis.
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 10:36 AM Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Most people are not attached to ICEs. They will buy EVs when the price
>>>> is compelling and they don't fear inconvenience of charging.
>>>> 
>>>> On price, I suspect people will take fuel and maintenance into some
>>>> account but not too much. The sticker price will have to be close. And,
>>>> frankly, a new ICE will easily go for 10 years without any costly
>>>> maintenance.
>>>> 
>>>> On charging, it's easy for us EV adopters to ignore or work around
>>>> charging issues. But, whether they need it or not, even two-car
>>>> households are used to *each* car having the ability to go on a road
>>>> trip. I see more and more people having a "moment of clarity" and
>>>> realizing they can get by with one road-trip car, so that's changing.
>>>> But on a road trip, few will be willing to wait for 30-60 minutes of
>>>> charging every 2-3 hours. And, there's the plethora of apartment
>>>> dwellers where charging infrastructure is difficult and costly to
>>>> install.
>>>> 
>>>> I really don't think people in general are resisting EVs, they just want
>>>> a known entity.
>>>> 
>>>> And, I think the same is true for the USPS. EV tech has changed a lot
>>>> since their prior experiments and, now, there may be very little
>>>> resistance by drivers. Right now, DeJoy is the problem, not the drivers.
>>>> 
>>>> Peri
>>>> 
>>>> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>>>> 
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "jamie via EV" <[email protected]>
>>>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>>>> Cc: "jamie" <[email protected]>
>>>> Sent: 25-Feb-21 12:03:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Your mail may arrive by EV - or it may not
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good points about the importance of political/emotional as well as
>>>> technical reasons. In fact the world is constantly changing and things can
>>>> become emotionally cool and politically popular over time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Technology improves. Clunky satellite phones that cost way too much and
>>>> didn't work that well have morphed into amazing little internet
>>>> communication and computing devices that most people today take for granted
>>>> and wouldn't be without.
>>>>> 
>>>>> EVs are climbing the adoption curve. EVs have become cool. People who buy
>>>> them tend to say they will never go back. Major automobile companies are
>>>> investing heavily into EVs going forward. Local and national governments,
>>>> and some auto manufacturers, are putting a cutoff deadline on building and
>>>> selling new fossil fuel cars.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tesla, on stock value, has become worth more than the other major auto
>>>> companies combined, or some such, and their cars out-perform gas cars on
>>>> multiple metrics. They can't make them fast enough to satisfy demand. We're
>>>> a long way past the early EV experiments, lead acid batteries, really slow
>>>> charging, and pain cars.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Amazon, FedEx, etc. are moving into EV delivery trucks. There are spiffy
>>>> EV police cars popping up in local police departments. Turns out there's
>>>> money to be saved, along with the technical advantages.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So things change. For an institution that prides itself on having a
>>>> long-term view, it's past time for the post office to get with the program.
>>>> I'll bet that at this point a lot of post office employees would agree -
>>>> along with the bean counters who can foresee significant operational
>>>> savings which the post office REALLY needs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> IOW, just because something didn't work before, within the context and
>>>> technology of earlier times, doesn't automatically mean it won't/can't work
>>>> now when the context and technology has changed and the momentum continues
>>>> to accelerate.
>>>>> 
>>>>> They used to deliver mail with horses.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> 
>>>>> PS. Yes, gas engine mechanics may not be happy, (nor will the oil
>>>> industry lobby). But if it's done right, delivery drivers and mail
>>>> carriers, by and large, will be THRILLED to move beyond their ancient
>>>> rattletraps into modern EVs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/25/21 12:05 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
>>>>>> Steves via EV wrote:
>>>>>>> Good article about postal vehicles and why they should be electric.
>>>>>>> https://www.greatbusinessschools.org/usps-long-life-vehicle/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Biggest take aways:
>>>>>>>  - 96% of them drive less than 40 miles a day.
>>>>>>> - current vehicles get 9 MPG
>>>>>>> - 83% are urban (think pollution)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Such a perfect fit for an EV
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ah, but those are the technical reasons. What counts are the political
>>>> and emotional reasons.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The USPS has tried EVs quite a few times. They have always "failed"; not
>>>> for technical reasons, but because the management and postal workers
>>>> disliked them, and opposed them in every way possible. In extreme cases,
>>>> the vehicles were even sabatoged to make *sure* they failed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My dad was a career postal employee. His "inside view" was that the
>>>> postal union hated EVs; they were a disruptive technology that got in the
>>>> way of "how we've always done things". EVs put limits on how and where
>>>> postal workers could drive them. There was extra record-keeping, and it was
>>>> harder to charge them than to put gas in. EVs also threatened the postal
>>>> mechanic's jobs.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lower-level managers were also opposed. They didn't like to be told from
>>>> "on high" how to do things. The postal bureaucracy is strong and deep, and
>>>> mightily opposed to change. It's going to be mighty hard to overcome that
>>>> prejudice and inertia.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lee Hart
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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