Dear Lucas
What an interesting point !
It would be nice to have data to woek on your hypothesis. Hope someone will 
consider doing research about it !
 
At some point, i wondered how to have done it online, and wa about  to ask you.
You talk about 2 ways. 
In the first one, what are the options for the translation ? How are captions 
made
In the second option, I guess is to have one (or more) interpreter. Is that 
correct ? 

Hugs
Christine 
+ 33 6 13 28 71 38
Sent from my mobile phone. Please forgive brevity.

> Le 13 août 2022 à 14:24, Lucas Cioffi <[email protected]> a écrit :
> 
> 
> Thank you for sharing these insights, Christine.  I especially like how 
> participants at your event figured out different ways to make the 
> conversations happen.
> 
> I don't have any data on what I am about to write, but I believe that in 
> online events where a translator is necessary, the participants become more 
> empathetic and there seems to be a deeper human connection between 
> participants.  The result is that having translation actually changes what is 
> said.  I don't know why this is, but I think this is because when people have 
> to listen to a language that they don't understand, they are reminded that 
> there are many more things that they do not know compared to things they do 
> know.  I think that when participants are made to feel humble (coming 
> naturally by the design of the event not by anyone telling them to be humble) 
> then they have more empathy for others.
> 
> Another reason that this might be true is that if translation is available, 
> then the organizers were thoughtful in their design and that the meeting has 
> a lot of resources to succeed.  It is possible that participants see that the 
> meeting has a great organizer or sufficient resources and become more 
> empathetic or thoughtful or caring -- maybe it is not because they are 
> humbled.
> 
> All my events in the past few years have been online.  Online it is possible 
> to design an event with translation in at least two ways:
> One way is for everyone to hear the event in just their preferred language, 
> with the translator (or captions created by a person or computer) talking at 
> the same time as the speaker (this doesn't happen at in-person events unless 
> participants are listening through headphones).
> Another way is for everyone to hear the original speaker and then have to 
> wait a few seconds for the translation.  This slows the conversation down, 
> but this is the way that builds more empathy, I believe.  
> It would be a fascinating research topic to see how translation affects the 
> human connection between people.
> 
> I wish a good day to all,
> Lucas Cioffi
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 10:50 AM christine koehler 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear all
>> 
>> I recently facilitated an OS gathering with translation & interpretation in 
>> 3 langages : French, Spanish and English. I learned a lot and thought it 
>> might be interesting to share it with you.
>> 
>> Context : 
>> This NGO contacted me a few months ago. They were considering OST for a 
>> special gathering of 80 people for 5 days, had tested it the year before 
>> with 2 small groups, and it worked well, but they still had questions.
>> 
>> It was a very important gathering for them : they wanted to envision the 
>> future of the way they work, with the people who make it and will take 
>> responsibilities in the future. Their willingness was to enable any people 
>> from any country in the world to be able to contribute and understand 
>> everything. 
>> Historically the NGO was started in France, in the 60’s, and then developed 
>> almost all over the world, especially in South America, Africa and North 
>> America. Today its headquarters are still in France, where they have a 
>> conference room with interpreting booths. Leadership team is also mostly 
>> French is this is something they hoped to change in the future.
>> The 5 days OST event was due to follow a 4 days gathering were they met in 
>> small groups (same group for the 4 days) to talk about personal experiences 
>> during their work and life.
>> 
>> 
>> At first I was surprised of their demand of everything in 3 langages. 
>> Reg conversation, I explained them than in OS event, people help each other 
>> and I didn’t see how it would be possible to orient the interpreters as 
>> people would follow law of 2 feet. But they insisted. Same for reports : 
>> each report had to be translated in the 3 langages as soon as it was 
>> finished.
>> 
>> So we organized it as follows :
>> We had opening circle, with the 3 langages in the opening : Spanish for the 
>> organizing committee, French for the facilitation, English for a Q & A at 
>> the end of the opening.  Interpreters were there in the booths, and everyone 
>> had an helmet for understanding the langage(s) he/she didn’t speak.
>> 
>> Then we build the agenda. With the help of interpreters , usual way of 
>> announcements was supposed to run smoothly.
>> The only special requirement was to write on top of page so that the 
>> translating team could translate it in the 2 other langages.
>> As soon as the person had chosen a day, a time and a place and sticked 
>> his/her theme on the wall, the translating team would translate the title 
>> into the 2 other langages. 
>> We tried to used a different color for each langage so that it would be easy 
>> to see the change of langage.
>> 
>> While opening the market place, we had asked everyone to write one’s name 
>> with a felt pen. Even if they could then change their mind. 
>> 
>> Then the coordinator of the interpreters, a lady form the NGO who knew 
>> everyone well and who could speak the 3 langages,  would assign each 
>> interpreter a « room » (we worked a lot in the garden), depending on who was 
>> supposed to go where.
>> 
>> For the book of proceeding, we worked with Google Drive, in which a folder 
>> had been created with one sub folder for each langage.
>> One person from the team of translators registered all topics and another 
>> would create the document in the original langage.
>> The reporter had to find the folder of the langage of the title, open it, 
>> find his/her title and type in one langage only. When completed, he/she 
>> would add the word FINISH at the top of the document .
>> Then the team would use Google translate to translate into required langages 
>> and put the translation in the required folder.
>> 
>> 
>> This was how it should have worked.
>> Of course it did not happen exactly as expected
>> 
>> For instance at the opening, the mic from the interpreters booths did not 
>> work, although it worked the week before.
>> So we had a bit of a danse, with only one microphone and the interpreters 
>> standing behind the circle and handing the microphone to one another 
>> depending on who with language was spoken. Finally the tech team discovered 
>> a few hours later that a cable was disconnected..
>> 
>> Quickly for the evening and morning news, we took the habit when holding the 
>> microphone to say first our first name then the langage we speak.
>> However, the group still felt inequality regarding langages, (so much easier 
>> for the French speaking group, who was also the largest). We tried to 
>> encourage speaking in a foreign language when another langage was known. For 
>> instance I spoke in English and my poor English was translated into French. 
>> But we quickly dropped it, as it made the life of the interpreters more 
>> difficult. 
>> 
>> During the day, it was incredibly interesting to see how they worked 
>> together : some groups had conversation in 3 langages, with 3 interpreter 
>> each at one corner of the room or sitting next to a person who needed it. 
>> Notes were sometimes taken on the paperboard in 2 langages by 2 different 
>> people. Other groups could have 2 langages or one only, or begin with one 
>> and end with 2 or 3, welcoming the bees that started to fly after day 2.
>> What amazed me was the quality of focus and attention of this group. 
>> Incredibly focussed ! I never witnessed side conversations. They were always 
>> caring and paying attention to each other. But this is probably related to 
>> the nature of their work and  this is another story.
>> 
>> 
>> The translation of reports took about one day to find its cruising speed.  
>> Reports had to be read before translated so that organizational jargon was 
>> removed (as Google translate does not understand jargon). Then translation 
>> needed to be read again by the translation team (one lady was working from 
>> South America for the translation into Spanish). 
>> It meant that it took more time than usual to get the reports displayed on 
>> the walls and we had to add deadline each day that the group did not follow.
>> 
>> Written comments on reports  were conditioned to « if you want to add one 
>> comment, pls add a post to note, and take the responsibility to have it in 
>> the 3 langages ». Very discouraging, but it worked : there were 3 comments, 
>> that were added in the book of proceeding as a picture, all in 3 langages.
>> 
>> The book of proceeding was discussed during evening news, as the group was 
>> eager to inform of their work as quickly as possible, the others who could 
>> not attend. Finally they agreed that the original version would be kept for 
>> them, and a second version, where everyone could make some corrections if 
>> he/she was uneasy with some sentences, would be send a few weeks later.
>> 
>> The book of proceedings was made available either printed for those who had 
>> no laptop or digital for those who had one. And in each one favorite 
>> langage. That was also amazing. 
>> 
>> It was a very interesting experience for me  :
>> The fact that everyone must have a perfect understanding of everything has a 
>> consequence on facilitation, especially for the last 2 days were we went to 
>> action planning. Some designs were not possible because of the translation.  
>> More structured, it required more coordination with the interpreters team 
>> and more thinking ahead of time with the planning team : they were those who 
>> were the gardians of the langage equality , I noticed that I repeatedly 
>> forgot about it. 
>> And it was also a personal lesson : I was not aware that, speaking 2 
>> dominant langages, I have a privileged access to communication with always 
>> the same people. I can see how this leads to subtil power domination, even 
>> if I don’t do it on purpose. 
>> And I bet I will quickly forget it, if I am not reminded frequently.
>> 
>> I will probably reminder for a while something I heard already years ago and 
>> that someone said in the closing circle : « when you tell jokes », as jokes 
>> don’t translate easily or even don’t translate at all in other cultures, « I 
>> don’t get it. It makes me feel separated from you ». In this group, with 
>> this level of care for each other which really I never witnessed before, 
>> this comment had a huge impact of my understanding of what makes a 
>> community, how strong it might be and how fragile it might also be. 
>> Something to cherish and nurture day by day..
>> 
>> 
>> Christine Koehler
>> 
>> 
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