Wow Michael, this makes so much sense and I experience it stronger every time when inviting/using an talking object for the speaker (and inviting the others to be respectful listeners) – both in-person and online. Powerful, beautiful and healing for the soul, I believe. Thomas
Från: Michael Herman <[email protected]> Skickat: den 13 augusti 2022 22:26 Till: christine koehler <[email protected]> Kopia: Open Space Listserv <[email protected]> Ämne: [OSList] Re: 5 days OST in 3 langages. Practical and general considerations Lucas’ observation reminds me that one of the five core disciplines of Bohmian dialogue (at least ggr wsy I learned it) is to “slow down the inquiry.” Translation does that automatically. Also makes one more careful when choosing one’s words. The others three are similarly supported, as well. See Disciplines of Dialogue Practice section at https://www.michaelherman.com/cgi/wiki.cgi?Dialogue -Listen -Suspend certainty/assumptions -Hold the space for difference -Slow down the inquiry -Speak from awareness On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 13:02 christine koehler <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Thank you Peggy I am so glad to have this opportunity to meet you again. See you there Christine + 33 6 13 28 71 38 Sent from my mobile phone. Please forgive brevity. Le 13 août 2022 à 18:01, Peggy Holman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> a écrit : Congratulations, Christine, on your groundbreaking work. Thank you for sharing what you did and what you learned from it. Lucas, what interesting reflections and questions on the role translation can play in fostering connection. Perhaps someone will be intrigued enough to pursue the inquiry. We’ll get a chance to practice with an in-person multi-lingual Open Space at WOSonOS in a couple months! See you there Christine. Warmly, Peggy _________________________________ Peggy Holman [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Twitter: @peggyholman Bellevue, WA 98006 206-948-0432 www.peggyholman.com<http://www.peggyholman.com> www.journalismthatmatters.org<http://www.journalismthatmatters.org> Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity<http://www.engagingemergence.com> "An angel told me that the only way to step into the fire and not get burnt, is to become the fire". -- Drew Dellinger On Aug 13, 2022, at 5:24 AM, Lucas Cioffi <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Thank you for sharing these insights, Christine. I especially like how participants at your event figured out different ways to make the conversations happen. I don't have any data on what I am about to write, but I believe that in online events where a translator is necessary, the participants become more empathetic and there seems to be a deeper human connection between participants. The result is that having translation actually changes what is said. I don't know why this is, but I think this is because when people have to listen to a language that they don't understand, they are reminded that there are many more things that they do not know compared to things they do know. I think that when participants are made to feel humble (coming naturally by the design of the event not by anyone telling them to be humble) then they have more empathy for others. Another reason that this might be true is that if translation is available, then the organizers were thoughtful in their design and that the meeting has a lot of resources to succeed. It is possible that participants see that the meeting has a great organizer or sufficient resources and become more empathetic or thoughtful or caring -- maybe it is not because they are humbled. All my events in the past few years have been online. Online it is possible to design an event with translation in at least two ways: * One way is for everyone to hear the event in just their preferred language, with the translator (or captions created by a person or computer) talking at the same time as the speaker (this doesn't happen at in-person events unless participants are listening through headphones). * Another way is for everyone to hear the original speaker and then have to wait a few seconds for the translation. This slows the conversation down, but this is the way that builds more empathy, I believe. It would be a fascinating research topic to see how translation affects the human connection between people. I wish a good day to all, Lucas Cioffi On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 10:50 AM christine koehler <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear all I recently facilitated an OS gathering with translation & interpretation in 3 langages : French, Spanish and English. I learned a lot and thought it might be interesting to share it with you. Context : This NGO contacted me a few months ago. They were considering OST for a special gathering of 80 people for 5 days, had tested it the year before with 2 small groups, and it worked well, but they still had questions. It was a very important gathering for them : they wanted to envision the future of the way they work, with the people who make it and will take responsibilities in the future. Their willingness was to enable any people from any country in the world to be able to contribute and understand everything. Historically the NGO was started in France, in the 60’s, and then developed almost all over the world, especially in South America, Africa and North America. Today its headquarters are still in France, where they have a conference room with interpreting booths. Leadership team is also mostly French is this is something they hoped to change in the future. The 5 days OST event was due to follow a 4 days gathering were they met in small groups (same group for the 4 days) to talk about personal experiences during their work and life. At first I was surprised of their demand of everything in 3 langages. Reg conversation, I explained them than in OS event, people help each other and I didn’t see how it would be possible to orient the interpreters as people would follow law of 2 feet. But they insisted. Same for reports : each report had to be translated in the 3 langages as soon as it was finished. So we organized it as follows : We had opening circle, with the 3 langages in the opening : Spanish for the organizing committee, French for the facilitation, English for a Q & A at the end of the opening. Interpreters were there in the booths, and everyone had an helmet for understanding the langage(s) he/she didn’t speak. Then we build the agenda. With the help of interpreters , usual way of announcements was supposed to run smoothly. The only special requirement was to write on top of page so that the translating team could translate it in the 2 other langages. As soon as the person had chosen a day, a time and a place and sticked his/her theme on the wall, the translating team would translate the title into the 2 other langages. We tried to used a different color for each langage so that it would be easy to see the change of langage. While opening the market place, we had asked everyone to write one’s name with a felt pen. Even if they could then change their mind. Then the coordinator of the interpreters, a lady form the NGO who knew everyone well and who could speak the 3 langages, would assign each interpreter a « room » (we worked a lot in the garden), depending on who was supposed to go where. For the book of proceeding, we worked with Google Drive, in which a folder had been created with one sub folder for each langage. One person from the team of translators registered all topics and another would create the document in the original langage. The reporter had to find the folder of the langage of the title, open it, find his/her title and type in one langage only. When completed, he/she would add the word FINISH at the top of the document . Then the team would use Google translate to translate into required langages and put the translation in the required folder. This was how it should have worked. Of course it did not happen exactly as expected For instance at the opening, the mic from the interpreters booths did not work, although it worked the week before. So we had a bit of a danse, with only one microphone and the interpreters standing behind the circle and handing the microphone to one another depending on who with language was spoken. Finally the tech team discovered a few hours later that a cable was disconnected.. Quickly for the evening and morning news, we took the habit when holding the microphone to say first our first name then the langage we speak. However, the group still felt inequality regarding langages, (so much easier for the French speaking group, who was also the largest). We tried to encourage speaking in a foreign language when another langage was known. For instance I spoke in English and my poor English was translated into French. But we quickly dropped it, as it made the life of the interpreters more difficult. During the day, it was incredibly interesting to see how they worked together : some groups had conversation in 3 langages, with 3 interpreter each at one corner of the room or sitting next to a person who needed it. Notes were sometimes taken on the paperboard in 2 langages by 2 different people. Other groups could have 2 langages or one only, or begin with one and end with 2 or 3, welcoming the bees that started to fly after day 2. What amazed me was the quality of focus and attention of this group. Incredibly focussed ! I never witnessed side conversations. They were always caring and paying attention to each other. But this is probably related to the nature of their work and this is another story. The translation of reports took about one day to find its cruising speed. Reports had to be read before translated so that organizational jargon was removed (as Google translate does not understand jargon). Then translation needed to be read again by the translation team (one lady was working from South America for the translation into Spanish). It meant that it took more time than usual to get the reports displayed on the walls and we had to add deadline each day that the group did not follow. Written comments on reports were conditioned to « if you want to add one comment, pls add a post to note, and take the responsibility to have it in the 3 langages ». Very discouraging, but it worked : there were 3 comments, that were added in the book of proceeding as a picture, all in 3 langages. The book of proceeding was discussed during evening news, as the group was eager to inform of their work as quickly as possible, the others who could not attend. Finally they agreed that the original version would be kept for them, and a second version, where everyone could make some corrections if he/she was uneasy with some sentences, would be send a few weeks later. The book of proceedings was made available either printed for those who had no laptop or digital for those who had one. And in each one favorite langage. That was also amazing. It was a very interesting experience for me : The fact that everyone must have a perfect understanding of everything has a consequence on facilitation, especially for the last 2 days were we went to action planning. Some designs were not possible because of the translation. More structured, it required more coordination with the interpreters team and more thinking ahead of time with the planning team : they were those who were the gardians of the langage equality , I noticed that I repeatedly forgot about it. And it was also a personal lesson : I was not aware that, speaking 2 dominant langages, I have a privileged access to communication with always the same people. I can see how this leads to subtil power domination, even if I don’t do it on purpose. And I bet I will quickly forget it, if I am not reminded frequently. I will probably reminder for a while something I heard already years ago and that someone said in the closing circle : « when you tell jokes », as jokes don’t translate easily or even don’t translate at all in other cultures, « I don’t get it. It makes me feel separated from you ». In this group, with this level of care for each other which really I never witnessed before, this comment had a huge impact of my understanding of what makes a community, how strong it might be and how fragile it might also be. Something to cherish and nurture day by day.. Christine Koehler _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _______________________________________________ OSList mailing list -- [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> -- -- Michael Herman Michael Herman Associates 312-280-7838 (mobile) MichaelHerman.com<http://MichaelHerman.com> OpenSpaceWorld.org<http://OpenSpaceWorld.org>
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