Bruno Marchal wrote:
> Le 09-nov.-06, à 14:07, 1Z a écrit :
>
> > Bruno Marchal wrote:
> >> Le 31-oct.-06, à 19:37, 1Z a écrit :
> >>
> >>> Well, I think numbers don't exist AT ALL....
> >>
> >> I have not the slightest idea what you mean by that.
> >
> > If you don't understand anti-Platonism, that would certainly explain
> > why you don't argue against it.
>
>
> I still don't understand what you mean by numbers does not exist at
> all.
> If that is "antiplatonism", it would help me if you could explain
> what is "antiplatonism", or better what could it mean that the numbers
> don't exist. We already agree they don't exist physically, but saying
> they does not exist at all ???

It means they don't non-physically exist either.

Mathematical claims about existence can be true
of false, but so can fictional claims like "Harry Potter exists
in Middle Earth"

>  Even Licorne exists in some sense,
> without referent in "the physical world", but with referent (meaning)
> in some fantasy worlds?

Fantasy worlds don't exist -- that's why they are called fantasy
worlds, --
Licornes don't exist, and Licornes' don't exist in fantasy worlds.

Meaning is *not* the same thing as reference (Bedeutung). That is the
box the anti-Platonist has climbed out of. Some terms have
referents (non-linguistic items they denote), others have only
"sense" (Sinn). Sense and reference are two dimensions
aspects of meaning, but not every term has both.
Sense is internal to langauge, it  a relationship between a
word/concept
and others. It is like a dictionary definition, whereas reference is
like
defining a word by pointing and saying "it is one of those".
But no-one has ever defined a Licorne that way, since
there is no Licorne to be pointed to. Mathematical concepts
are defined in terms of other mathematical concepts.
Mathematical reference is impossible and unnecessary.

> Why could numbers not exist in some similar
> sense, except that the number fantasy kiks back (as Tom has recalled
> recently).

Saying that Licornes exist in a fantasy world
is a cumbersome way of saying they don't
literally exist. Well, numbers don't literally
kick back. They don't interact causally
with my reality.

> I am just trying to understand what you say.
> 
> Bruno
> 
> 
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/


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