> On Apr 19, 10:34 pm, "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Even if there is in a sense just one mind perceiving all OM's simultaneously
>> (Platonia, the mind of God, the Universe), there is still the fact that the
>> OM in Washington does not directly share the experiences of its counterpart
>> in Moscow. If it did, then they would not be distinct OM's. From the third
>> person perspective, there is no mystery in duplication: where previously
>> there was one, now there are two. The paradoxes arise from the fact that we
>> have the sort of minds which consider that one OM has a particular
>> relationship to another OM, based partly, but not entirely, on memory. For
>> example, if I am to be copied tomorrow and one of the copies tortured, I am
>> worried, because I feel there is a 50% chance that I will be the one; but
>> come tomorrow, and I am not tortured, I am relieved, and feel pity for my
>> copy screaming in the next room. This doesn't really make sense: today I
>> anticipate being both copies, and neither copy has greater claim to being
>> "me" than the other, but tomorrow the situation is completely different. But
>> the subjective view doesn't have to make sense. It's just the way we think,
>> a contingent fact of evolution.
> Do you agree that under ASSA, the fact that you find yourself as an
> observer who was spared from torture should give you no relief, as
> your next OM is equally likely to sample the tortured perspective as
> it is to experience the spared perspective? Shouldn't you be equally
> as worried if anyone in the world (your copy or not) was to be
> tortured, as the next sampled OM could be that person's.
This seems to rest on an implicit idea that the OMs are "out there" and that
"you" are a person independent of them, a person to can sample them or
experience them. This is contrary to the idea of OMs which is that OMs are
atomic units of persons. You are a sequence of OMs. There is no extra-OM "you"
who can sample them or experience them.
> RSSA has never appealed to me because I see no logical reason to link
> two observer moments from one time to another when those two observer
> moments are not the same.
I'm not sure about "logical reason" but the whole idea of OMs is that a person
is constituted by a sequence of them. If there is nothing to link them then
there is no sequence and no person; and the thing to be explained has vanished
from the explanation.
>Intuitively it feels that each mind is on a
> set track to only experience those OM's that follow from the birth of
> an observer, but logically there are too many problems with this.
> Possible problems with RSSA:
> Quantum mechanics means each observer follows multiple paths, some of
> which intersect with what might have been considered a different
> observer previously, this forms a spectrum linking all observers
> Time by its nature implies change, an observer's brain state is in
> different from one time to another, if the brains are different the
> observers are different. By what rule set can two different observers
> be said to be the same?
The are never the same in the sense of identical. Two OMs may be part of the
"same person" if there are in a sequence defined by some linkage, such as
continuity of spatial viewpoint and memory reference. How or whether such a
sequence can be said to exist was the subject of a long discussion between
Stathis and me.
> Common intuition and experience play many tricks on us. It makes us
> think that the current time (present) is special, because it is the
> only thing point in time we are aware of. It makes us think that the
> current laws of physics and universe we see around us is special,
> because it is the only set of laws we are aware of. I propose the
> same is true of personal identity, it makes us think that the self is
> special, because it is the only observer's perspective we are aware
> of. For those who believe in block time, the present is no more
> special or real than any other time. To those on the Everything list,
> the universe we perceive now is no more real than any other. Our
> current OM remembering previous OM's experienced from the same
> observer's viewpoint creates the illusion that said observer is
> travelling into the future and bound to experience the next logical OM
> for this observer, but I hold this is only an illusion.
> ASSA is closer to a one mind/all perspectives experienced
> simultanesouly view because it removes the notion of observers that
> travel through time from one OM to the next and treats only observer
> moments. Consider the infinite set of all OMs, by definition, the
> existance of an OM necessitates its being experienced, but without a
> multiplicity of observers who can say "who" is experiencing them?
> There is no who, just the fact that each is being experienced. Since
> this set exists in the plentitude (which is timeless) then it follows
> that all perspectives are being experienced simultaneously.
> The existance of a spectrum of related OM's means there is a choice in
> interpretation of this infinite OM set. Either you can hold that each
> OM constitues its own mind, or if you believe there is any
> relationship between OM's (i.e. You experience now AND you will
> experience 10 seconds from now) then you must conclude there is only
> one mind. This is just my viewpoint on the issue and I invite others
> to give their opinions on it and poke holes in it.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at