On 02 Dec 2008, at 00:16, Kim Jones wrote:
>> To explain that the world is (mostly) mathematical (and then psycho
>> bio or theo logical), without mathematics, can be demanding.
> OK - accepted; I get this from mathematicians and physicists all the
> time - and I have quite a few as friends. Nevertheless, if there was
> one human on the planet who could do it, or at the very best make a
> heroic attempt at it, I reckon YOU'RE THE ONE!!!!!
> Court jesters like me cannot understand mathematics, but we understand
> the 'realities' described by mathematics through a kind of sixth
> sense. We are also very good judges of character. Tu peux te sauver,
> mais tu ne peux pas m'eschapper!!!
Here, below, is the plan of my heroic attempt (indeed) to explain why
I think that: IF we assume that we are machine, THEN we have to
explain or even to reduce eventually physics from a tiny part of
Today most scientists believe that the "theory of everything" is
mainly SWE + Mechanism. They believe that there is a physical
universe, that it obeys SWE (Schroedinger Wave Equation), and more and
more believe in Everett explanation of the mind. In particular they
believe in Everett mechanist explanation of why the machine's mind
"observes" indeterminacy and wave collapses.
What I pretend is that if we accept Everett (and Descartes) Mechanist
explanation of the mind, then we *have to* complete Everett work by
justifying the SWE itself from the the mechanist assumption.
Physics will have to be (re)defined by what is invariant for all
possible observers (and I agree that many evidences point on the
correctness of the SWE (or its relativistic variant)).
In this lists most people are open minded to the idea of the existence
of all possible worlds, either in the QM Everett form, or in more
general modal realist view (à la David Lewis) or in term of
computations, or mind states (Observer moment). It is the idea that
"everything" is more easy to explain than "something".
The way I proceed is purely deductive. I show that the hypothesis of
digital mechanism constraint physics so much that a physics is
derivable from arithmetic (+ digital mechanism (UDA) and even, in some
sense, without (AUDA)), and that physics can then be compared to our
empirically inferred physics, and that this makes mechanism
Many things can happen: for example one of my first (very old) attempt
to derive physics has led to classical logic. If that was correct, it
would have mean that our physics is mainly a local, geographic-
historical fact, contingent and not derivable from arithmetic. The
correct derivation leads to a many worlds or many histories kind of
theory. It is a many world interpretation of Elementary Arithmetic;
where, a bit like in Everett, the interpretations is not done by us,
but by the numbers themselves relatively to the others numbers. That
is why at some point we will have to interview some number.
Hmmm... perhaps I am already completely not understandable. Have you
heard about Everett? Have you an opinion on the plausibility of the
If not, this is not so important. It helps to make links with other
posts, and it can help to believe what we will deduce from mechanism,
because it is easier for a "many-worlder" to believe in those "many"
type consequences than it is for any mono-worlder.
Have you an idea of what *is* a universal purpose computer, and how
does it function? This is not needed for the "theological" point, but
it is needed to have an idea of what is going on, and eventually why
arithmetic is enough. The universal machine is really the main heroin
You have the right to remain silent of course. But it could help me to
have an idea.
I could have take much more distance, and (more provocatively) told
you that, since we are animals, we have been programmed for
instinctively betting on a solid neighborhood, which we take as our
universe, if not of our home,
... and that Modernity begins, in -500, in Occident, when Pythagorus
sum up the math he discovered through his travels. Through Plato this
gives a new picture of reality where the physical appearance were
conceived as the border or shadow of a deeper perhaps divine reality.
We did take some distance with that instinctive program. So did
science begin, including theology,
... and that, in Occident Modernity ended in +500, when Plato Academy
has been closed. Since then it is still hard to harbor doubt in
"theology"(be it theist or atheist), a problem because science is the
art of harboring doubt, imo.
Enlightenment has been only half Enlightenment: Jewish and Arabs
provided the greek science to the European, but with the greek
theology or better the greek attitude in theology missing, such
attitude is and was qualified as pagan.
Why theology? because we will see that finite machine have a tendency
to develop theories about the infinite, the uncomputable, the
unprovable, the non observable etc. This plays a key role, if only to
eventually justify the quanta (as very peculiar sort of first person
But perhaps here I am taking too much distance? Only your feedback
could help us to find the genuine wavelength between us.
Anyway Kim, here is the plan. For point "1)" and "2)", I will really
assume very little; and the "layman" should understand without any
For "3)", I can explain or give the "real thing". In that last case,
we have to do some, rather little, amount of math (diagonalization).
For "B", I can again explain in english, at the risk of seeming
unbelievable (if not mad), or give you the real thing, but then the
amount of math is far more considerable.
A) UDA (Universal Dovetailer Argument)
1) I explain that if you are a machine, you are already immaterial.
2) Mechanism entails the existence of a subjective or first person
indeterminacy or uncertainty.
3) The Universal Machine, the Universal Dovetailer and the reversal
B) AUDA (Arithmetical or Abstract Universal Dovetailer Argument).
1) Ontology: Robinson Arithmetic
2) Epistemology: Peano Arithmetic
3) Arithmetical Interpretation of Plotinus (including Plotinus theory
OK? Feel free to make any comment. I am still unsure about what you
You show me you know french, so I could also eventually refer you to
my "long thesis", it is entirely self-contained, except for the
deduction and completeness theorem in logic. It is also as accurate as
possible on the history of Mechanism, one of the oldest human theory.
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